Return of the Power Running Game?
by Sander on Feb 14, 2012 1:31 PM EST
in Scheme Analysis
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Last season the Tampa Bay Buccaneers signed a new offensive line coach. After dumping Pete Mangurian, they brought in veteran coach Pat Morris ostensibly to install a new power running game. After all, the Bucs' offensive line is much more suited to power/counter runs than it is to zone runs. But when the season started we saw very little of that, and as the season progressed the power running game fell to the wayside more and more.
The difference between a zone running scheme and a power running scheme is fairly simple: with zone runs you're trying to move a defense sideways, stretching them out to create holes. With a power running scheme you're trying to push the defense back, and usually you're trying overload a specific point on the line with blockers. Tampa Bay has done an excellent job of collecting players who can excel in a power scheme, and then not actually running that scheme.
Instead, the Bucs have generally stuck to a zone scheme, with little success. Davin Joseph in particular struggles in that scheme, while he's an excellent blocker in power schemes. The reason for that as far as I can gather is that the Bucs based their play-action passing game on zone running looks. That's all well and good, but it really hurt their running game, and that's a shame.
But when the Bucs had to establish the run, when they had to have success on the ground, they went back to the power game and had success with it. When they had to run out the clock, they brought it out. When they were down in the second quarter and couldn't set up play-action passes, they returned to the power running game. They never committed to that style of running, however.
But, in comes Mike Sullivan, the new offensive coordinator and hopefully some salvation. The New York Giants still run a power running game, and it's likely that Sullivan will bring that kind of running game to the Bucs as well. Power O, Power O, Power O. That's what I want to see out of the Bucs' running game. Will we finally get to see it?
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Get rid of Faine.
Lots of runs for losses or no gain up the middle especially in the single back formation. He cant make a push forward.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
We should get a new big, beefy guard in the 5th round or so
Slide Zuttah over to center. This would be a cheap but big upgrade whether we pick up Richardson or not. Assuming we don’t get Nicks or Grubbs of course (I’m not expecting us to get either).
I hope that Peter Konz is there in Round 2...
and we can waive “bye bye” to brittle Faine, and his big salary, once and for all.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 16, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
It would be nice to see us playing to our strengths this year
Last year it seemed more like we couldn’t even get out of our own way.
With the 5th pick of the 2012 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select....
the fact Schiano emphasized physical
We didn’t run the ball enough, nor did we have adequate depth at RB. Fingers crossed for a compliment with speed. I’m on the oust Faine train as well, he’s feta cheese under pressure.
by GoBuxGo on Feb 14, 2012 2:18 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
AGREE
Way to many 3 and outs we need alot more 10-15 play drives and not have to punt on 3rd and 1
EXactly dude..
And I believe, if we could of established longer drives instead of pea-shooters, our defense wouldn’t of been ragged out all the time.
Dom = Koko http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tsSyrTy0g&feature=related
i also liked us using the extra offensive lineman too when we ran with demar dotson
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
thunder and lightning
i miss the days of alstot and dunn…. man we used to run that rock !( like jacobs and bradshaw) I really hope we bring that back… Just imagine what that would do for Josh Freeman…
The giants were a pass first offense. Looking forward to it.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why
We should draft richardson
by keysersoze19 on Feb 14, 2012 4:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Why, so we can waste a top 5 pick on a player who will get progressively worse within 5 years?
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Never herd of a player coming
Into the league and getting worst. If he splits carries with blount there will not be a whole lot of millage on him down the line. you say why spend a top 5 pick on a player who is going to split carries? Thats the kicker him and blount together gives freeman and our defense a advantage week in and week out.
by keysersoze19 on Feb 14, 2012 5:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Running backs get worse after 5 years. It's 2012, they are a disposable player. You don't invest high draft picks in that type of player.
Look how bad the skins look after that clinton portis/champ bailey trade.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
You are rediculous with your "disposable RB" theories...
and for the love of God – Spring Training please hurry up.
Lots of backs remain in the league beyond 5 years. Especially so with a tandem backfield and the split carries that are all the rage. Since you love your research SO much, why don’t you dig a little deeper and tell us why THESE backs are out of the league after 5 years. Injury, competition at their position, just worn out – what? You make superficial blanket statements and offer no real explaination as to why.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 14, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Worn out and injuries.
Just look at AP’s numbers. Progressively worse. LT, same thing.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
LT LT nor AP split carries wiyh anyone the majority of their careers.
Plus AP is still a beast when healthy…yeah, yeah, yeah I know injuries are your other point. It is the NFL injuries happen at every position. IMO running back is a very important position in today’s NFL. QB is most important obviously. But the argument could be made RB is 2nd most important on Offense…
by RuudAwakening on Feb 14, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
DUKES, I see you are too lazy to back up your stats...
so you just say things like “worn out” but won’t bother to confirm your suspicions. LT has been in this league quite a while – much longer than your “5 years and done” theory. RBs do not grow on trees, or are as easy to find as you claim. If they were – ours woudn’t suck (outside of Blount)
by Cracker Ball on Feb 14, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
People find pro bowl rushers in rounds 2-undrafted just as easy as they do in the first.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know how long Miami looked for a RB back in the Marino era?
Just look up how many 1000 yard RB’s there were while Marino was with the Doplhins.
People? Clearly we can't...
If you have a best bet sitting there in front of you, and the guy that you really want is already gone, then RB Trent Richardson would be a great pick.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 15, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Its no need to even bother responding to his stuff. I mean he is one of the most biased, unobjective people on here.
I mean it seems like he just says stuff to just say it and there is no chance of him changing his outlook or even seeing the others persons argument whatsoever. Nothing you can do to change it so it just is what it is.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
Agreed...
I enjoy watching his frustrations grow as people don’t buy in to his theories. He game is inflammatory statements followed by weak arguments – and now laziness. Kind of an admission of sorts – no?
by Cracker Ball on Feb 15, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Eh, I kinda agree on his point and kind of don't.
I do believe top 5 is too high for just about any back.
Middle of the first round or lower though, I can see taking a flyer on a good back, like what NO did last year with Ingram.
RBs just don’t seem to have the value for a super high pick these days, as when you’re making a top 5 or top 10 pick you don’t want someone who is going to be splitting time like a RB in today’s NFL, you want someone who will be on the field nearly every play, like a top-flight defensive player or WR or lineman. There are very few teams who do not run by committee anymore, and spending a top 5 pick on someone who will be on the field for only roughly half of our offensive snaps just isn’t really getting good value….to me at least.
Now that the staff is coming together
I’m getting excited to see what’s gonna happen. The past three years, there was nothing to be excited about, and they shouldn’t have happened. But I think with the experience Shiano has, college or what ever, it’s still experience and I think we’re gonna make a change in the right direction. Granted I would not be surprised if we struggle this year, but I think we’ll make progress.
"Put a jersey on!!!" Warren Sapp
At least Schiano is trying to surround himself with experience...
so another “epic fail” like the Rah Experiment can hopefully be avoided.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 14, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
10 win season didn't get you excited?
Morris turned out to be a dud but if 10 wins doesn’t do it for you you will have a long wait to get excited.
Considering every team we beat
Either didn’t have a winning record or didn’t have a reason to play (NO at the end of the season), even 10 wins wasn’t exactly a huge accomplishment. Unexpected, sure, but not anything truly special.
That is exactly what I tried to tell everybody...
but I got branded a heretic – Ha.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 15, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
There are only 2 scenarios of which we should take Richardson at 5...
#1. We sign one of the top CB’s in Free-Agency, such as Brandon Carr (my fav) making taking the best corner in the draft less of a priority. Of course in this scenario IMO we should still try to trade back. Or, we could just take Morris if available and sure up our CB position for the next 5+ years.
#2. Morris is gone and we cant find a trade partner. If this in fact does become reality I think Richardson should be the “next man up” on our Big Board.
If Morris is on the board at 5 and we didnt manage to sign atleast 1 of the better Free Agent CB’s we have to pass on Richardson and take Morris.
It’s a win-win regarless of what happens draft day because, If Morris is there at 5 and we take him we fill our biggest need going into the off-season with the best CB in the draft.
If Morris is not available and we can find a trade partner we take Richardson to pair with Blount which would be the most “Physical” RB tandem in the league no doubt.
If Morris is gone and we do happen to find a trade partner we can trade back a few spots/pick up extra picks and still take Kirkpatrick or Richardson.
I think we’ll be fine regardless of how the draft plays out as long as we take full advantage of Free-Agency this time around.
I can see us taking Richardson if claiborne and blackmon are gone.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
but that means RG3 is there, and I would be shocked that we can't trade down with the seahawks for RG3.
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by putupyourDUKES on Feb 14, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
That sentence was an entire weeks worth for DUKES...
so can we JUST ignore him until 2/22/2012?
by Cracker Ball on Feb 15, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see why everyone keeps saying we need to draft morris. First off we have drafted on the defense side of the ball the past couple of years and it has not really panned out. Second we need some veteran leadership which we can do that in FA. Third morris wasn’t even the best db on LSU team so why should he be drafted that high. He is overrated and got scorched in the championship game like the rest of the secondary. Plus he is not proven. On the other hand tr is and he is use to splitting carries. He can come and do the same thing. Plus he does everything blount can’t do. Which is block, catch, and make big runs. Then he is smart and he is a workaholic which can be contagious on a team that seems to get lazy. With the new oc coming from NY he is going to want a 1 2 tandem and tr gives them that. So no morris at 5 unless tr is already gone.
Morris wasn't the best DB? who was?
That’s laughable
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
by 4QB on Feb 14, 2012 10:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Peterson/ Mathieur/Claiborne
Is the order I believe he was going by. From what I’ve read Claiborne is the best cover man out of the 3 with Peterson the most athletic and Mathieu being the big play dude. BTW it was Mathieu that got burned a lot during that title game. I didn’t see them even throw to Claiborne.
Then again Mathieu does have the “Honey Badger” nickname so he must be better.
Actually, your entire argument is laughable.
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
by 4QB on Feb 14, 2012 10:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You're joking, right?
Yes we’ve drafted on the defensive side the last 2 years, and our defense is still terrible. Just because it hasn’t panned out as you said, doesn’t mean you STOP trying to improve it. On the contrary, it means you try MORE to fix it.
Morris is the best choice we can make at our position in the draft. He’s the most NFL-ready DB in the draft, and the one with the highest upside, with no known (to me at least) off-the-field issues. You can argue Morris wasn’t LSU’s best DB and he got burned in the championship game, but my arguement is….so? Every prospect has a bad game or two, so I can easily overlook his performance against Alabama in the NC. As for him not being the best DB on LSU’s defense, who is supposedly better, Janoris Jenkins? That’s why Jenkins is projected to be picked in the bottom of the first round instead of top 5 or top 10 like Morris, right?
As for Richardson being a better pick….he may indeed be a better player, but right now we have FAR more needs on defense then we do on offense. If we didn’t have ANY RB that was starting quality, I’d be open to Richardson, but we have a starter already. Name the Bucs’ starting CBs for next year. Talib will far more than likely be gone, and even if Ronde comes back for one more season he’s still better suited to being a nickelback at this stage in his career. That leaves us with what, Biggers and Myron Lewis? No thanks, I’ll take the top DB in the draft, since we don’t HAVE a DB.
Did u even watch the championship game
They barely threw at Claiborne, it was Mathieu who was burned all day. Claiborne is far and beyond better than any other CB!!
by TerenceJ11 on Feb 14, 2012 11:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
I watched that entire game to scout Claiborne. What a waste of time that was: they didn’t test him once.
Actually no, I didn't lol, or at least not much of it.
I don’t watch college football very often, since usually when those games are played I have school stuff that needs doing. I was pointing out that cdubbw could argue Claiborne got burnt, but that even if it was true that it wouldn’t change my view of him and his potential.
When did Morris get burned in the championship game? On the contrary, it was Tyrann Mathieu shortness that was being picked on over and over again.
Jenkins isn’t in LSU, btw.
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
Exactly^^
Bama made a point not to throw at Claiborne, because he was the defensive playmaker for LSU the 1st time they met when he Intercepted a pass!!
by TerenceJ11 on Feb 14, 2012 11:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Morris is by far the best corner at LSU.
Tyrann is a great gambler, but Claiborne is the best cover corner to come out since Joe Haden. Claiborne gets the Revis treatment, teams don’t throw his way. And when they do, they pay.
by flash_kiley on Feb 15, 2012 12:37 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Dunno why I though Jenkins was LSU.
A friend of mine who watches a lot of college football said getting either of LSU’s CBs in the draft would be a good pickup, and seeing Jenkins projected in the bottom area of the first I assumed he was LSU. Didn’t check his college, tbh.
Didn't he end up at North Alabama, or something like that?
by Cracker Ball on Feb 15, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Finally looked into it
And yeah, I think he surfaced at North Alabama. Seems to have stayed out of trouble after being booted from FL, so if he’s still available late in the first it might be a good idea for us to emulate NO last year and trade back into the 1st to snag him. Even if we get a FA CB and Morris, Jenkins would be a giant upgrade at nickelback, and great injury insurance.
That being said,
According to most mocks I’ve seen recently he’ll get taken before Kirkpatrick, so I don’t think that particular scenario is very likely lol.
A lot of people don't like Kirkpatrick as much...
because he is stiff and struggles a bit with change of direction. Not as fluid as you’d like a CB to be. Sounds A LOT like our Myron Lewis to me. Even some talk of a S conversion.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 16, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ok so this is my whole take on the whole Claiborne situation.
He was the best CB at LSU and is the best CB coming out the draft. But this is pretty much by default. Its hard to grade a CB when they are not throwing at him. Now this is in college which is fine. He earned the respect and deserves it. Now i don’t want you all to think that NFL teams wont throw at him constantly. I heard so much about the “Honey Badger” and he made great plays all season, but when he got tested alot in the championship game he got toasted. Same thing could happen to Claiborne when he gets tested in the NFL. My take is that in about 2-3 years he could end up being at least a solid to great CB. Just based of how long it takes Rookie CB’s to pan out in the NFL. I agree CDUBBW with this constant investment in the first round. We have to understand that it takes time for the defense to gel… Look at our d-line… It may take another 1-2 years to become great. While i say we should still address defense in the draft, im just not with doing it this year when Richardson is available. I cant see anything that this guy cant do. He’s the total package. And his only knock is that stigma of running backs. But he can come right in and make an immediate impact and for quite a while. On defense the CB is the less likely to have an immediate impact on defense as a rookie (in my opinion). And because of the depth of CBs in FA i would take thoses options over Claiborne. But i do acknowledge that he is the best CB coming out the draft this year but he’s not the second coming of Deion Sanders. I havent seen that much out of him yet.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
And T- rich isn't Barry Sanders
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
by 4QB on Feb 15, 2012 11:55 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
No Barry Sanders but... I think its pretty clear that Richardson is a rare running back that we havent seen in a long time.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
And Claiborne isn't a rare corner?
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
Its hard to say because its more difficult to grade a CB that isnt getting thrown to in college.
Who knows how we will be in the NFL. So i wouldnt say rare….. very good prospect? Yes. Rare no. Cant say that for him yet.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
Can't say the same for T.Rich either then
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
Why not?
What is it that he cant do that doesnt make him rare? Its easier to evaluate offensive players other than o-lineman to a certain extent and defensive guys like LB’s, D-lineman and safeties. CB’s are much harder to evaluate especially if the are not getting thrown at. I could see if he was getting alot of INT’s and he was a ballhawk. But i cant say that for sure. Not saying that he can either but on tape I havent seen it. Wit richardson I see it on tape. Which is why hes projected in the top 10 as a RB in this day and age as a QB driven league. Nor have i seen a RB with RARE strength. But if you dont think so then thats your opinion.
ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!
They are both at the top prospect of their position...
which makes this debate so valid. There is not a bad choice here…
by Cracker Ball on Feb 16, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Rare have I seen an CB with Claiborne's pure cover skills straight out of college.
"Number one song and a Grammy, now I'm smashing
Maserati crashing, swerving through the traffic
Wrap it 'round a pole, sell a mil off the tragedy
I defy gravity "
I couldn't agree more...
and that is why I personally have them ranked:
1. Claiborne
2. Richardson
If they should both be gone at Pick 5 – I haven’t considered that.
by Cracker Ball on Feb 17, 2012 7:23 AM EST up reply actions
i doesnt matter to me itz a win win
morris-great physical DB
richerson-great back and he holds on to da ball
kirkpatrick-really really good physical DB
blackmon-speaks for himself
by BuCs R iNn Da BuiLdIn on Feb 15, 2012 7:51 AM EST reply actions
we should make a move for
brent grimes and leon hall
ahmad brooks or lawrence timmons
and draft trent
by BuCs R iNn Da BuiLdIn on Feb 15, 2012 7:55 AM EST reply actions
Why do you keep listing guys who are under contract
Also, please pay attention to your spelling and use capital letters. Tough to read.
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