The assumption about our defense in 2011

by dcbucsfan on Jan 20, 2012 4:50 PM EST

I had to point out that we had the worst defense in franchise history because of points. Yes our defense was terrible. No doubt about it. Its assumed that we gave up all these points because of our defense failing us, and yes in coverage there were times we were beat. Not true all of the time. The majority of the defensive failures were because of the inability to stop the run, and tackle which caused short passes to turn into long plays. .

Lots of points given up on offense or special teams turnovers are accounted for as well. And if they weren't turnovers for points the defense had to defend a short field alot of the time. Lets not forget that we were 21st against the pass and 32nd in the league against the run. Its been a few games where our defense has kept us in the games but we just couldn't score on offense. Titans, Lions, and Bears games are examples.

So for those who keep saying that we need a CB because our defense was so terrible, keep in mind that is not the case. We are needing a CB because we are potentially losing 2 CB's. If Aqib Talib weren't going to jail we would not make Morris Claiborne a "necessary pick". And if Ronde Barber weren't retiring we definitely wouldn't be drafting a CB that high. So in closing remember what the real reason why our defense sucked, and what the real weakness IS on defense.

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Ronde is that old so either way we should find a replacement

He really can’t hold up in man coverage against receivers anymore. Ronde is a great chess piece to move around the board, but one of the worst tacklers and coverage corners in the league. He’s a legend but drafting Claiborne would still make sense as Ronde could retire any day now. You watch, we pick a head coach or defensive coordinator he doesn’t like and he’s out. Or Dan Snyder signs him so he can finish his career with Rah. Either way we still need to draft corners.

Mo Claiborne or Trent Richardson in 2012... FIRE OLSON!!!

by freeman05 on Jan 20, 2012 8:24 PM EST reply actions

Thats all im saying.Understandable that we need a replacement for Ronde

But Ronde even at his age and his inconstincies was the best defensive player on the team. and that is sad. He made plays. And im just saying id feel better with Richardson and Jenkins/Minnfield/Dennard/maybe even Kirpatrick if he falls which is possible over Claiborne and James/Polk or Miller.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions

Wait, you're seriously trying to argue that this defense wasn't terrible?

Really? Did you even watch the Bucs play?

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by Sander on Jan 20, 2012 8:27 PM EST reply actions

I also added some paragraph breaks to make this more readable

Walls of text like this are hard to get too. Please try to take this into account next time you write a fanpost

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by Sander on Jan 20, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think that's what he's arguing

I think he is trying to make the point that the Secondary wasn’t the weakest link on this team, and it’s probably true but with Talib likely out this offseason or the next, Barber’s age and Biggers performance this year it’s hard to argue that it’s not a pressing need going forward.

by NorvilleRogers on Jan 20, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions

yes that was the point.

and i totally understand what we maybe losing. but the point is people say the defense was bad and forget why it was.

ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!

by dcbucsfan on Jan 20, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions

The linebackers were by far the worst unit on our defense.

But you’re right, with Talib and Barber question marks this coming year, we need to address corner back.

I think the general lack of discipline is the main reason our team sucked in general. Being out of position, missed tackles, giving up on plays… All that goes away with the right coach.

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Jan 21, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions

Understandable

but in itself coverage can be fixed as well with the right coach too. We do need to adress cornerback no doubt. I just think we can do it and pick up a stud at running back as well. This CB draft is thick. Not just Claiborne.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions

I agree about linebackers...

but I think we really need a good free agent in that unit this season. Maybe not the first pick.

by Brooklyn Buc on Jan 21, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

No free agents are that great

I say double dip on CB take james in the third a safety free agent and keep talib hopefully.

by Carlitin1988 on Jan 21, 2012 6:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Hypothetically...

If we keep double dipping at every position on defense, how long until we have a solid defense? And will Gmac and Price be retiring by that point?

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Jan 21, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

im not saying it wasnt terrible.

i said we need to remember why it was terrible. not so much because of bad coverage.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 20, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions

That was part of the problem

And it will get much, much worse if Talib & Ronde both leave, which is exceedingly likely.

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by Sander on Jan 20, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions

part of the problem yes.

main problem no. yes it can get worse but nobody is adressing the real issue. our run defense. we need improvement in our linebacker depth. thats the real weakness. even with claiborne our run defense will still be terrible. so our defense will be at best the same level as last years

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 20, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions

Getting linebackers is really easy

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by Sander on Jan 20, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions

you think everything is easy

if thats the case then we would have been had good linebackers. its not that easy.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

It's much easier to get linebackers than cornerbacks

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by Sander on Jan 21, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions

it's not easy, or reasonable, to think you can find anything...

digging through the trash, other teams practice squads, etc.

by Cracker Ball on Jan 21, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

Drafting a defender, whether CB or LB,

Depending on who is available, should be our top priority. I know that you want richardson real, real bad and in a perfect world I would want him too. Unfortunately our D sucks more than our O sucks, so that is where they should concentrate in the draft. Besides, we need a speed back/3rd down back even more than richardson, that we can get in the 3rd round or lower.

East Coast Fan

by Bucfan on Jan 20, 2012 8:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions

i would prefer lb over cb. once again we can draft claiborne but still have a bad defense stopping the run

id rather strengthen the offense since we have invested so much on defense already and it hasnt improved. now we need some playmakers on offense. and get the best offensive playmaker in the draft. im not saying dont address cb at all. but there are more quality cbs in this draft than there is running backs. id rahter have a monster at lb but the talent isnt there in the draft in the top 5 to get one. so i say lets get an offensive weapon because blount isnt enough

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 20, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions

I see your point!!

But as I previously stated, the needs in defense out weigh the needs on offense. The offense needed a better OC which I hope we get. We do need some pieces on offense I agree. With the offenses we face every year in our own division, I feel better slowing them down then getting punched in the mouth on every possession.

I wont be surprised or seriously dissapointed if they do draft richardson. I just think that they should concentrate on defense first because offense is closer to respectability than the defense is.

East Coast Fan

by Bucfan on Jan 20, 2012 9:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

i see your point too

i think the pieces we have on the front four will develop and coaches can get them to play great.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions

Which linebacker is worth the #5 pick?

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Jan 21, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions

none.

thats why im not pushing for one to be drafted. but im just envisioning a defense like last year even with claiborne. who even knows what our potential dc even wants to do. i dont know. but claiborne is great but there are other good cbs in the draft and we can at least get another great offensive player to use no matter who our coach is

ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!

by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions

Everyone forgets that Blount is a beast, he just doesn't get the touches but he is. He needs a complimentary back, no need for wasting a number 5 overall on that when claiborne is on the board. If he's gone then yes we could use a superstar

by Carlitin1988 on Jan 20, 2012 11:52 PM EST via Android app reply actions

blount is a beast

but hes inconsistent. hes a north south runner. lots a games he got shut down because they stuffed 9-10 runners in the box and he was done

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions

A good passing game can help that too, Why not draft Justin Blackmon?

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 21, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions

see this is why im not for blackmon.

we have benn and williams and i think they are good recievers. i like briscoe too. i really am hoping they bounce back. and plus blackmon fits that same type as williams really in my opinion. if we were to get a wr we need a speedy wr to stretch the field. i think benn can do it though. but i am also afraid of freeman throwing the ball as much just because of this bad year in accuracy. thats why im more for a running back to take the load of him and get him some easy yards with dumpoff passes

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions

I think Blount and a cheap 3DRB in FA/middle rounds of the draft is better than TR and Blunt

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 21, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions

thats the mindset that dominik has had before.

lets go cheap…. and look at what its gotten us.

ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!

by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions

Not cheap: low-risk high-reward

Kregg Lumpkin was low-risk, low-reward

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 21, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions

You're joking right?

The run defense was terrible because we had the worst linebackers in the league. The pass defense was terrible because Ronde is old, Talib wasn’t that good outside of a couple games, and beyond that we are absolutely terrible. And it was terrible. That is obvious to anyone who watched the games. So we had terrible and then we add losing our 2 best corners. Biggest need on the team. Linebacker is the only other position group that has an argument.

Plus there’s that whole Claiborne is BPA by a mile if he’s there thing (short of Kalil dropping to us).

by aakks on Jan 21, 2012 7:49 AM EST reply actions

I beg to differ on the pass defense

The biggest problem in pass defense is that NONE of the safeties cover deep well. They are always late in getting to the sideline to stop the flag routes. Corners play a certain way assuming they have deep help at times, and that deep help was never there. If the NFL was not such a dink and dunk passing league these days, the Bucs might have given up 640 points this year. I used to think Tanard Jackson would be a superstar if he ever kicked his bad habits, but his play this year was horrible. He could not play the run or the pass or even tackle. Cody Grimm is our only hope, but with injuries in two straight seasons, we’ll see if he does not suffer a dropoff in speed or ability.

All that said, draft Claiborne. Time for Ronde to move to safety IMO.

by jrscott on Jan 21, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions

Terrible idea.

Safeties need to put fear into people. No knock on Ronde but he’s not exactly the type that lays people out. Ronde should be straight nickel, IMO.

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Jan 21, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions

so why was the run defense ranked worst than the pass defense?

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions

Because once teams got ahead huge they just ran it

They were both awful.

by aakks on Jan 21, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions

lmfao!!!!

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

The worst

E.J.Biggers and Myron Lewis are the WORST starting corner and saftey in the entire nfl period. We admittedly need LB help too but i feel thats easier to adresss in FA. But lets face it Clairbourne,Blackmon, or Richardson would help us right away. Any of these is ok. I do think a shutdown corner big enough to play bump and run is invaluable though. FIRE THE CANNONS IN 2012

by bryaneer on Jan 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST reply actions

biggers and lewis are just corners. no safeties. corners can be addressed in fa which is suggested to but there are plenty of cbs that are worse than them

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions

steelers, and ravens dont and never hav had a shutdoown corner and have had the best defenses for quite a while

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions

Jaguars had the 6th rank defense and they had no shutdown cb.

they were ranked 28th last year

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 1:20 PM EST reply actions

JAX has a decent DL and very good LB play

and a DB group better than ours. We suck much at LB and DB play. No comparison really.

by Cracker Ball on Jan 21, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

the point was that its not necessary to have a "shutdow cb" to have a great defense

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions

It's not necessary to have a star RB to have a great offense, either

Nor is it necessary to have great linebackers to have a good defense.

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by Sander on Jan 21, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

right but you analyze your teams strengths and weaknesses.

freeman needs help in the run game. and richardson is the best option to help

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions

Freeman needs receiver who consistently catch passes and who can get open vs man coverage

That would help a lot more than a better running game.

But, if we are analyzing holes, the running game was the one thing last year that did work. When the Bucs ran the ball they did just fine (until the final weeks when Blount fumbled – something that can be fixed). The problem wasn’t the quality of the running game, it was the fact that the Bucs never stuck to it. That’s not going to be solved by bringing in a new RB.

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by Sander on Jan 21, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions

freeman needs to not throw the ball as much. running game helps out an inaccurate thrower

blount not only fumbles but can get shut out because hes a one dimensional runner. if the run game was so strong as it was trent richardson wouldnt even be a consideration at all.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 21, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions

So you're saying you want Richardson because he wouldn't be a consideration if he wouldn't help

How’s that for a circular argument?

The running game did just fine. Blount could use a change-of-pace/complementary back. Drafting Richardson to be that guy is way overshooting your mark.

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by Sander on Jan 21, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions

All i want to know is can he catch the ball on 3rd and long in the backfield and get the first down?

something blumpkin could never do.

there's a gleam, men, there's a gleam

by bucfanlostiniowa on Jan 21, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, but so can almost 60% of the RB's in the draft

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 21, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions

they thought kregg lumpkin could do it too

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 22, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions

agreed

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 22, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions

no im saying if the running game was so wonderful as you say we wouldnt need to address running back at all.

blount was invincible in a lot of games and it could happen next year too. so why not invest in someone capable of taking over instead of a change of pace back who isnt capable of carrying the load if blount is benched, not used or injured. James cant do it. Richardson can. And not our running attack was overall bad.

ALL ABOARD THE TRENT RICHARDSON TRAIN!!!

by dcbucsfan on Jan 22, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions

It is necessary to have great LB play to have an elite DEF...

unless you can name one that didn’t.

by Cracker Ball on Jan 22, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions

Linebackers are just guys in most 4-3 and they're fairly interchangable

As long as they’re good tacklers it’s generally all good. Defensive line play is much more important, and good defensive lines make average linebackers look good. The Giants had a very good defense last year, they had no one noteworthy at linebacker. In fact, they have a pretty good defense right now – and again no one noteworthy at linebacker.

That doesn’t mean you can get by with subpar LB play. It also doesn’t mean that great linebackers don’t help. It just means that you’re not doomed if you don’t have great linebackers.

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by Sander on Jan 22, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

giants defense was ranked 27th in the league this year.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 22, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions

I said 'right now' not 'during the season'

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by Sander on Jan 22, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions

Also good job ignoring their performance last year

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by Sander on Jan 22, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

i didnt ignore nothing.

you cant compare last years defense with this years because its not the same team. actually this years defense is more talented than last years

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 23, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions

Last year they had no one at linebacker and a great defense, was my point

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by Sander on Jan 23, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions

and you said this year too but they actually do.

Blackburn is good. and Kiwanakwu too. Regardless, last year better stats on defense. This year statistically worse even in the later part of the season.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 23, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

right now there defense as a whole is still pretty much the same as far as giving up yards and points. no change

however the front line is getting pressure and they are stopping the run better because the linebackers are playing very well. chase blackburn is one noteworthy linebacker. but overall they have a opportunistic defense like last years packers, and the saints did before that and the patriots have right not. gives up a lot of yards and points but makes plays at the right time.

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by dcbucsfan on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions