How can the Bucs spend their remaining cap space?
by Sander on Aug 9, 2011 12:14 PM EDT
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PrintAccording to ESPN, the Bucs still have nearly $15 million in cap space - and cap space that isn't spent this year will be useless in any future years. Spending that cap space would make sense for the Bucs, but with no expensive free agents left, who could the Bucs spend their money on? They have two options here: extensions and trades.
Extensions
The Bucs would prefer to hand out money on extensions. They've made it a priority these past years to retain their own players, and have rewarded Donald Penn, Davin Joseph and Quincy Black with big contracts. Any such extension has to happen before the team's last regular season game of 2011 to count toward this year's salary cap.
Unfortunately, extending current player contracts could be problematic under the new CBA. Article 7, Section 3(k)(i) provides that Rookie Contracts of drafted players cannot be renegotiated, amended or altered in any way until after the final regular season game of a player's third regular season. For undrafted players this limit would be two years. Now, it's not entirely clear whether that's applicable to players drafted before 2011, although there is no language in the CBA to suggest otherwise. Given the fact all other rules seem to be applicable to existing player contracts, I have no real reason to think this would be different for pre-2011 draftees. And this represents a problem for the Bucs.
Ira Kaufman suggested a great use of cap space on Twitter today: extend Josh Freeman's contract. He even claimed the Bucs want to do that as quickly as possible - but under the new CBA, it appears that they won't be allowed to do so, as Josh Freeman is just entering his third year in the league. Similarly, if they want to reward Mike Williams or Legarrette Blount, they won't be able to do so this years. In fact, most players the Bucs may want to extend are not eligible for an extension.
There are a couple of exceptions, though: Geno Hayes, Jeremy Zuttah and Sean Jones. Geno Hayes has been a splashy linebacker these past two years, but also an inconsistent player. If he can put together a couple of solid games don't be surprised if the fourth-year player, who is in the final year of his contract, receives a mid-season contract extension.
Sean Jones is in the final year of his contract and while he isn't a particularly rangy safety, he has been useful for the Bucs and they may want to keep him on the team for a longer time. Jeremy Zuttah isn't too dissimilar, although he is significantly younger. The fourth-year player is also entering his contract year, and proved to be a capable starting center last season. He has also filled in at both guard spots over the years, and while he didn't look like a great starter, he would be very valuable as a versatile backup who could play at multiple positions.
Trades
In the past two years, the Bucs have traded for several players. The biggest trade came in 2009, when the Bucs gave the Cleveland Browns a second-round draft pick and a fifth-round draft pick for TE Kellen Winslow Jr. Let's just say that that trade worked out pretty well.
The year after that the Bucs also gave up a sixth-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles for WR Reggie Brown. Brown didn't make it to the regular season roster, so that trade was a lot less successful. The Bucs also gave up a fifth-round pick for a sixth-round pick and Chiefs DE Alex Magee during the 2010 season. While Magee showed some flashes late last year, he is now listed fourth on the depth chart at left defensive end and will have to really show up in preseason to hang on to a roster spot. Given the investment, neither result is entirely surprising. The Bucs used late-round picks on players who had some potential to grow, and it didn't happen.
Don't expect the Bucs to give up a lot in trade for a player. But don't be surprised if they give up another late-round pick for a role-player with some potential like Magee or Brown, although I would be very surprised if they gave up anything more than a fifth-rounder for a player.
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Accrued season/credited season
I may be wrong but won’t Freeman be considered a 3rd year player after so many games this year? Then they could extend him after that point since the cap doesn’t count till after the season. Unless I am totally wrong, and just being ignorant. ;p
You're confusing a number of things
The salary cap is something teams need to be in compliance with at all times – but that’s not the problem. The problem is that the Bucs have cap space to spend, but only really extensions to do so – which means wasted cap space.
And the rule on contract extensoins has nothing to do with accrued seasons. It simply states that rookie contracts cannot be extended until after the final regular season game in the third year of that contract. How many games a player actually plays or whether he has been credited with seasons doesn’t matter.
Also, players are never seen as fourth-year players during their third season. Players are only credited with a season after it is over.
About Rookies
I think, as a lawyer, I can make an argument that any player under contract at the signing of the CBA was not a “rookie” under the express terms of the agreement; therefore, the rules for “rookie” contracts do not apply.
The CBA defines rookies as "a person who has never before signed a Player Contract with an NFL Club." Freeman clearly does not fall within this definition. He has signed a contract. He did so in 2009. The same is true for all other players currently under contract. The CBA goes on to say that "[t]he first Player Contract signed by such person is a "Rookie Contract." Such person being, of course, rookies.
It’s a highly technical parsing of the language, and admittedly I haven’t read the whole thing, but an argument can be made.
That's interesting
A valid argument. I guess the counter argument was that under the terms of this (and the previous) CBA Freeman was a rookie in 2009 and is still under his rookie contract.
The question may not be whether the argument can be made, though, but whether or not the NFL/NFLPA want to interpret it that way.
they left off 3 players who can be extended
Tanard Jackson , Talib and Josh Johnson
Tanard Jackson will have to prove he can be relied on before getting an extension
There’s no way Talib is getting an extension before his legal situation is done. Josh Johnson could get one, but has made it clear that he wants to test free agency.
Tanard and Talib
Why not throw some conditional money at Tanard and Talib and extend them contingent on their ability to stay out of trouble?
yep
but it does not even have to be conditional..its not guaranteed.. if talib goes to prison or suspendend he does not get paid anyhow. then if Tanard fails another drug test he gets the death penalty anyhow. So there is no risk. but the Bucs can save a boatload of money by locking them up now
and Tanard would be next to zero publicity that really matters. Not like it was cocaine.. Was bad judgement yes. but it was just weed. I dont see that much of a risk for a pro bowl calibar safety who they will try to resign after the season anyhow. or a corner they will try to extend next year after court.
Actually, we don't know what Tanard was suspended for
And I was talking about Aqib Talib. You don’t extend someone while he’s facing charges of Assault With a Deadly Weapon. That just doesn’t happen. Tanard Jackson won’t get an extension until he proves he can be reliable, and even then he may not. The Bucs will use the entire season to judge that.
Also, please start using the subject title. It’s there for a reason
Well as far as Tanard its a safe assumption to assume it was weed
For one that was what his first suspension was for, Secondly is it was for a proformance drug or anything more then weed im sure it would have been leaked as those things ussaully are.
As far as Talib goes im sure Dom will have all the facts of the case soon if he does not already. If it comes down to him thinking Talib would be found guilty and he was worried about publicity he would cut ties now.
Josh johnson is certainly a players who could be resigned , It is not as though any teams came knocking the doors down looking to trade for him, So to extend him a contract equal to what he might sign in the offseason now would be very tempting for him to accept
sorry about subject line.
You can assume it was for weed, but that doesn't mean it was
And, in fact, I don’t think we even officially know what the first suspension was for. It’s all rumors.
Whether Dominik has ‘all the facts’ or not is irrelevant. For one, he can’t even know whether ‘all the facts’ he has are really all the facts there are to have. Second, he can’t know what the jury will think of Talib’s case. Giving Talib an extension during the season will be a PR disaster as long as the trial isn’t finished (just imagine the headlines), and if Talib is actually found guilty it will be even worse. Dominik is not taking that risk, and he has no reason to take that risk as Talib is under contract through the 2012 season.
The Bucs may make an offer to Johnson, but Johnson has made it clear that he wants to be a free agent. That’s why the Bucs brought in Jonathan Crompton. The Bucs can’t just re-sign Johnson if he doesn’t want to stay, which he doesn’t.
The team can't have any contact with Tanard until his suspension is up.
Many things can happen between now and then, they could keep him, they could cut him. nobody knows. I doubt they cut him, and I agree that they should make an offer because if he screws up again, he’s done.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
They could offer him an extension
But I doubt they do so before the season. I think they want to see him make it at least through a season without getting busted again.
i just think hes the best choice to offer an extension to
but yeah it would be silly if they offered him one now without seeing some change from him first or at least no drop off in play
why does that matter
if he does get busted he is gone for good? if u bring him back u have made the commited
Because the Bucs need to see whether he is still reliable
Not just in terms of drug use, but in terms of behavior, on-the-field play etc.
And, again, why try to extend him before the season ends? Where’s the upside here?
same upside u have in signing any young player
He and Gino will be the Bucs top 2 unrestrcted free agents after the year. and that would take care of a good portion of the 15 mil the Bucs have left.
The Bucs will have plenty of time to re-sign him after the season, before free agency
Making sure they don’t make a bone-headed commitment is a lot more important than eating up a little cap space (they do have plenty next year).
how is it bone headed..
no gauranteed contract. no signing bonus.. i dont see the risk for a player of his caliber.. if he comes back proves he can still play at a high level then what is the difference between extending him in week 14 or waiting untill after the season?
You think he accepts a contract with zip in guaranteed money?
There are two parties involved in all contract talks. If you say “This is a great deal for a player of his caliber” and you’re right about that, then that player knows it’s a great deal and will want more.
no team will give him a signing bonus or anything else
unless they are just plain stupid. He made that bed. He has already cost himself millions for his mistakes and he will continue to pay
So on the one hand you say he's a great player and the Bucs will jump at the opportunity to re-sign him
And on the other hand you say that there will only be interest in him for very little money around the NFL.
That doesn’t compute.
not for little money
ok lets say he stayed out of trouble this past year. he would have probably have resieved a deal for about 6 mil a year. with a signing bonus or 2 years guaranteed. now he will get a deal woth about 6 mil with no signing bonus and no guaranteed money. plus he cost himself 6 mil this year alone . by losing a year towards free agency.
He will get guaranteed money
There may be some forfeiture clause in there, but there will be guaranteed skill/injury money in any deal he gets.
ok so say he does
back to the original point. if he comes in and plays at a high level. and as an organization the bucs want to keep him.. then why not extend him towards then end of the year and put a bulk of the cap hit on this year. And yes i know we will have money next year.. but next year u will have Biggers, Roy Miller and Freeman all looking for new contracts if they are healthy.
If they do it this season, they do it way at the end
And I sincerely doubt they do. He’d be back for just a couple of weeks at that point. They may not even want to keep him for the long term.
i hope its more then a couple weeks
i hope he is reinstated by week 4 and back in the line up by week 6. from training camp this year the only drop off that is really noticable is the free safty possision. and the deff is much improved in many areas. all of last def lineman have improved Gino looks much better as do biggers and lezis at corner.. and even jones at safetly looks better in his second year..and that conclusion came after being at 5 practices
Cody Grimm will probably be fine
Grimm can be a great free safety, especially in the run game. He really changed that run defense despite his size. He just needs to battle back from that leg injury.
You're kidding right?
No disrespect but ill bet money that the Bucs and the NFL know all the facts of the case and have seen everything from dicovery . That is a 9 billion dollar a year business with attorneys crawling in every corner. And ill bet money also that if the league believed Talib would be convited he would not be playing this season. this is not a drug case or a domestic case. This is big time.. The NFL would have already have steped in and suspended him.. And trust me Talib and his Attorney would in no way not be forthcoming with Goodell for he could suspend Talib indefinatly for not being 100% honest with the league office. Give the Bucs and the NFL thier due respect
You're making a ton of assumptions that you can in no real way support
The NFL could be a $10 trillion business, it still can’t know how a jury will find on Talib.
And, again, it’s actually irrelevant whether or not they know. It would be a PR disaster for Dominik to give a player on trial for a very serious felony an extension. There’s no way he can afford to that, it would make the team look horrible.
How so?
By standing behind thier player? Is that not what the Bucs are doing now? i mean they are paying him and playing him while he faces the charges.. And no i am not assuming.. A good attorney can look at a case and tell if it will be prosecuted or not. just as the league saw big Bens case. Look what happened then. I will be suprised if the case ever enters a court room agaisnt him. His mother yes but not him. I am sure the league would suspend him until after the case if they believed it will go to trial. The NFL does not want that kind of PR .
As far as a PR disaster goes do u not think they will be talking about this on Sunday and Monday night Football? The Bucs have made thier choice and that choice is to stand behind Talib just as the Steelers did with big Ben and the Ravins did with Ray Lewis. A new contract has no bearing on anything at this point.
Two things
First: we don’t know whether he will ultimately be prosecuted. If he is prosecuted, we don’t know if he will be found guilty. No one knows. Lots of cases are close and not clear-cut. We know almost nothing about this case, and even if the NFL knows everything, there’s no way to know whether they have a clear vision of whether or not Talib will ultimately be found guilty. Even if they do have that, the fact that he has not been suspended yet means absolutely nothing in that regard.
Second, here’s a headline you will see if Dominik does this:
“Bucs throw big money at possible felon”
Here’s another one:
“Cornerback on trial for aggravated assault with deadly weapon given multi-million dollar contract by Buccaneers”
There are no headlines on Talib now, because there is nothing to talk about. That is a very different situation, and there’s no way the Bucs want to create another PR storm around Talib. There is a difference between keeping him under an existing contract and actually offering him an extension while he still has two years under his contract.
Besides all that, there is NO REASON for the Bucs to give Talib a new contract anyway. He’s under contract through 2012. There’s no pressure at all to get a deal done. It’s not happening.
And Goodell could bust out his ban-hammer at any moment and susupend Talib.
He might just be waiting til right before the season, cause Talib wasn’t the only player in the NFL who got in trouble in the off season.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
In Talibs case would have been done by now
The league has had months to review all the facts.
exactly
and they have done nothing. Which makes me tend to believe that this case is weak at best. Or the league steps in and keeps it off national tv on monday night football
That's one huge and completely unsupported assumption
For one, the league has not done anything on anyone who has violated the personal conduct policy during the lockout so far. It could easily be that they simply haven’t gotten to it.
Second, it’s much more likely that they’re waiting for the legal process to play out before suspending him. And trust me, even if Talib is found innocent, he will be suspended for violating the personal conduct policy.
Saying that they haven’t done anything and hence it must clearly be the case that Talib is innocent and will be found innocent is ridiculous. That’s a huge leap.
Goodell as far as I know hasn't done any action to any player who messed up, yet.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he waits until after training camp to do anything, and he still can suspend Talib regardless of his trial date.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
Those headlines make no sense at all
If the Bucs were that worried about it they would not have the headlines of a possible felon playing for them now in the paper. or read a line everytime you see Talibs name. And they sure would not want it on national TV on Sunday and Monday night football. The front office the Coaching staff and THE TEAM are all standing behind Talib. THAT decision has been made. They know that everytime they go on the road that All h*ll is goin to break loose with opposing fans. And the league and teams have a very good track record of knowing if someone will be convicted of a serious crime. i named a couple that were not.. and case in point. Mike Vic was arrested and did not play. Nor did Plexico
a new contract right now has no meaning, the bucs have allready decided to stand behind him
and as for publicity, the worst is allready over.
Yes, they are standing behind Talib right now
That does not mean they are going to go and give him a new contract without even knowing whether or not he will be found guilty.
Do you ever read Pro Football Talk or any other sports website? Those headlines are exactly what you will see if he is given a new contract. All hell will break loose. That’s how media works. And frankly, it’s not like those headlines are wrong – that would be exactly what the Bucs would be doing.
And again, why would the Bucs do this? What’s the upside here? Get Talib a little cheaper? Not worth it.
Sander knows everything about football given all of his experience
I see your point in that if you want to offer a completely low ball offer to Talib or TJack it makes sense because they almost might jump and accept it for a huge discount. Financially we could end up with a top five corner and free safety for a fraction of the market value.
except on game day ..opp fans will be ruthless
and i hope it is a rally point for this young team on the road
who cares about opposing fans lol.. they hate you wether you almost murdered someone or not
plus i care more about what our fans think about him and he i heard got a nice welcome at the saturday practice
Actually, with no cap floor
the Bucs don’t have to spend the rest of their cap money. They don’t even have to reach the 89% minimum this year. The first two years of the CBA are a league wide cap/floor. So long as all teams combined meet the 99% mark, the Bucs don’t have to spend another dime. You may ask how the league can hit 99% if the Bucs are only at 88%, but teams are also allowed to borrow from future years to exceed 100% of the cap this year. So, some teams will be over the “cap”, and some will be under, so long as total spending is where it needs to be. They may extend the contract of a player or two, but I don’t see them trading for anyone unless Dom finds a deal he thinks is worth it for the team. I’d guess by seasons end, they will be in the neighborhood of 95%.
I never said they have to spend
I just said that there’s no reason not to if they find the opportunity
Sorry, just sounded like you think they need to spend the money
With comments like “$15M in cap space and money not spent this year will be useless in future years” sounds to me like you thought they needed to spend it. If that’s not the case, then fine. I’m just saying I don’t think they’ll spend it at all, or very little of it at best. If there were a player out there that they found worthy of spending it on, they probably would have already (in free agency), there is still the possibility of trade (although that usually means giving up a draft choice which the team covets). Again, if they spend at all, I believe it may be an extension to Geno Hayes if he’s playing well, or maybe one or two others.
I don't think they'll spend just to spend
And there’s a good chance they dont spend it at all. Still, I do think you’ll see Hayes offered an extension midway through the season if he plays well.
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