Salary Cap & Floor Implications for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by Sander on Jul 15, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
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PrintAs the labor negotiations near an end, details about the next CBA are beginning to leak. The most relevant detail pertained to the salary cap and salary floor. The cap will be set at $123 million per team, although extra credits will give teams some leeway to go over that maximum. That won't be a problem for the Bucs, though, as they'd have to start signing free agents at a record pace to get anywhere near the cap.
What matters for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is the salary floor. In previous years that salary floor was based on cap economics and not on actual spending, which allowed teams to spend less than the salary floor through accounting tricks. The major concession the owners have made is to make the salary floor a cash floor. The owners will have to actually spend to the floor every single year. The salary floor itself will be set at 90% of the salary cap for each team, which would make it $110.7 million next season. The Bucs have currently committed $64.4 million in cash spending to 2011, so they would be forced to spend about $46.3 million to meet the salary floor. Hit the jump to see how I think this plays out.
First, the Buccaneers will re-sign Davin Joseph. There is little doubt in my mind that we will see Joseph back with the Bucs this season, and he will get a very good contract. Two benchmark contracts for interior linemen were signed these past two season: the New York Jets signed C Nick Mangold to an eight-year, $57.4 million contract with $25 million in guarantees last season. One team also spent big on an offensive guard: the New Orleans Saints gave Jahri Evans a seven-year, $56.7 million contract, worth $19 million in the first year.
If Joseph gets a similar contract, which seems likely, then the Bucs could meet nearly half of their cash spending requirement by moving money into his first year. Taking Evans' contract as a benchmark, the Bucs would give Joseph $19 million in his first year, leaving them with $27.3 million they have to spend.
The Bucs also have a number of free agents they could offer second-tier contracts, including Quincy Black, Adam Hayward, Barrett Ruud and Cadillac Williams. For Cadillac, the closest comparison is probably Chester Taylor, who signed a four-year, $12.5 million contract with $7 million guaranteed in the first year. With those $7 million on the books, the Bucs have to spend just $20.3 million more.
I don't see the Bucs signing all three of their free agent linebackers, but they are likely to retain two of them. One relatively young, solid but not top-of-the-market linebacker who recently signed a new contract is A.J. Hawk. If the Bucs want to retain either Black or Ruud, they will likely have to sign them to a contract similar to A.J. Hawk's five-year, $33.75 million contract. Hawk got an $8 million signing bonus and an average annual salary of about $4 million . Signing either Ruud or Black to a contract like that would get the Bucs down to $8.3 million in 2011.
That $8.3 million is not a lot of money. With rookie signing contracts, training camp salaries and tenders for restricted free agents the Bucs would likely make the cash salary floor without having to jump through any hoops. The Bucs are likely to add a few second-tier free agents as well, like they did with Sean Jones last season. In addition, the Bucs could decide to sign some of their restricted free agents like Michael Bennett and James Lee to long-term contracts instead of offering them tenders. There is no need to bring in an expensive free agent, although the Bucs certainly have the cap room to do so.
There is one important note here, though: all of these contracts are front-loaded, and the Bucs would have to spend again in 2012. But at that point they would be able to re-sign a number of their own players to new contracts. CBA rules currently prevent the team from extending players until they have been in the league for 2 years, while the new CBA is expected to increase the required number of years to 3 for drafted players. This would exclude Mike Williams from being extended until after the 2012 season, although Legarrette Blount could be offered a contract extension at that point. More importantly, Josh Freeman, Roy Miller, Aqib Talib and Tanard Jackson and Geno Hayes could all be offered new contracts at that point.
While the Bucs will have to spend to meet the salary floor this offseason, there is no need for the team to go nuts in free agency. They can stick to their plan of building through the draft and re-signing their own players to meet the salary floor.
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Black, Joseph, Lee….give Freeman, Hayes long contracts as well as sign asomugha
We’ll be well over the floor, but well under the cap, as well as ready to win….Freeman will control the offense while Asomugha will give our rookie bookend DEs time to get to the passer….lets face it even if we KEEP Talib he’s going to be suspended for a season anyways; might as well as try and trade him and get SOMETHING for him
There's no guarantee Talib will be suspended at all
In fact, I think it’s likely that he won’t be suspended. If he is suspended, there’s no way he’ll be suspended for a year. Not unless he’s actually convicted of a felony.
I thought the cap floor was supposed to increase signings
Not just pay the regulars even more?
((b-town))
How would it increase signings?
Roster limits aren’t changing (temporarily for the offseason, maybe), so they can’t sign more players.
They can sign BETTER players
than the ones we have now at some positions. Hopefully our roster looks different come camp.
by Cracker Ball on Jul 15, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope so
We need some LB work done and maybe a OL FA or two.
((b-town))
by Titankillah on Jul 15, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with several of these figures.
First off, I love Caddy, but he is no way comparable to Chester Taylor, who was coming off two huge seasons with Minnesota as their third down back when he got that deal and has never been seriously injured. Taylor was averaging almost 9 yards a catch out of the backfield in Minnesota and I think that’s what Chicago was paying for. Caddy is certainly serviceable out of the backfield and a great blocker, but I think with his injury history he’ll be lucky to see half of that up front money.
I also find it funny that you think Joseph deserves a massive contract similar to Evans after you wrote this just a few months ago:
Davin Joseph was the worst Bucs guard by my count, blowing 14 blocks in 11 games started, or 1.3 blown blocks per game. Keydrick Vincent (who was cut midseason) blew blocks at a rate of 1.2 per game, rookie Derek Hardman blew 1.3 blocks per game, and surprisingly rookie Ted Larsen performed best, with just 0.9 blown blocks per game. Based on last year, Davin Joseph did not stand out among Bucs guards at all and doesn’t warrant a big contract. However, Joseph played with an injured knee throughout the season and has been a consistent performer in the past. The question is whether he can return to his pre-2010 form.
I have a very hard time believing that they would pay any one player $19M for one season, especially one that missed five games last year. Have they ever payed any player that much for one season? I agree it would be an easy way to get around the salary floor issue, but it seems to go against the grain of what they have been doing the past couple of years.
Basically I don’t understand the logic of just staying the course and re-signing a bunch of players for more than their market value when so many free agents are out there that could immediately make us more competitive. We’ll just have to wait and see how it goes I guess.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I'm not saying Joseph deserves that contract
But if he hits the open market, he’s getting that kind of money.
Also, you’re looking at these numbers the wrong way. They’re not paying a player $19M for one year. They’re giving a player a long, multi-year contract, and moving the payment of a large portion of that money to the first year. Don’t look at that number like a one-year salary, because the team won’t.
Yes. But if Joseph get's injured or his play doesn't pick back up they are out 19M of hugely front loaded contract. I just don't believe he will get that kind of up front money from the Glazers.
and then faced with the exact same problem the next year. Why keep front loading contracts when you can spread the wealth and make your team much better. If you have to spend it you may as well get the most value for your cash. Paying an offensive guard 1/5th of the whole teams salary is not getting good value.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Again: don't look at it like a one-year salary, because it isn't
That $19M guaranteed in the first year would represent almost all of the guaranteed money in his contract. The alternative is to give him the same kind of guaranteed money over a longer period of time, which they will have to pay no matter what happens to Joseph (barring voluntary retirement). So whether they pay that money now or over a span of 5 years doesn’t matter to them, except for purposes of reaching the salary floor.
And if your purpose is to get to the salary floor, paying a guard that kind of money one year is good value. It’s not like they’re giving him a ridiculous contract: Joseph is a very good run blocker, and a pretty good pass blocker who had a down year.
I don't think front loading contracts is smart because once the players get that money what's to inspire them to continue to be successful?
Front loading a contract like that will only inspire a player to play hard enough to just not get cut. Once he is owed only a few million a season he won’t feel pressure to perform because there won’t be any heat for the front office to cut his dead weight. I just don’t agree with front loading like that.
I also don’t think Davin Joseph is going to command the biggest contract for an offensive guard ever (which is what Evans was)
There is no way that Joseph gets 19M guaranteed in my opinion, so it doesn’t matter if it is up front or not.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
'biggest contract ever' gets thrown around a lot, but is generally a meaningless term
Because Evans’ biggest contract ever is going to be superseded by the next big guard to sign a new contract (Joseph or Mankins). Remember when Jeff Faine got the biggest contract for a center ever? He didn’t get that contract because he was actually the best center ever, and it has since been surpassed by several other contracts.
Joseph is the top guard on the market, and he is a very good player. He may have had a down year, but he is going to get a premium contract, and $20M guaranteed would not be overpaying for him.
As for the issue of motivation in the form of yearly payments, I think that aspects gets way oversold anyway, and Joseph has always been a hard worker so I doubt it’d matter much. Regardless, I’m not talking about moving money to the front that he may not earn, and I’m not talking about reducing later salaries. This is moving payments forward, nothing else.
Good point of bringing up Faine.
They should have learned their lesson about overpaying for interior offensive linemen. I’ll just say that I’ll be very surprised if Joseph gets a contract that size after they structured Penn’s deal the way they did
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
You're missing my point on Faine
That contract was not a bad contract. He got the biggest contract of a center ever, because contract values increase over time and he was the one whose contract happened to be up. It’s why Eli Manning got a great contract. If you look at those great contracts 3 years later, they look like cheap deals. Which is why looking at “biggest contract ever” is completely meaningless: that changes every year.
Did you click the link?
about Penn’s guarantees. If they could get something similar with Joseph they will probably try. Granted Joseph doesn’t have the weight issues like Penn does.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I know what they did with Penn's contract
Penn has a documented history of issues with his weight. When has Joseph had an issue with motivation or weight or anything like it? There’s no real reason to insert such a clause.
I'm talking about the injury clause not the weight clause.
The $4.5 million base salary in 2010 is truly guaranteed, both for injury and skill. The $7.2 million base salary in 2011 and the $5.1 million base salary in 2012 are guaranteed for injury only — and thus not truly guaranteed. If, as we’ve explained in relation to other players, Penn has a non-career-ending injury that limits his actual or perceived skill, he possibly will get cut, and thus not get paid more than $12 million in supposedly guaranteed money.
The actual guarantee? Only $6.5 million, with the obligation in each of the next two years falling on Penn to play well, to keep his weight down, and to avoid an injury that while not fatal to his career would be sufficiently bad to prompt the team to conclude that his skills have diminished.
The point is why would just give Donald Penn 19M up front. Especially if “guaranteed” means what it did in Penn’s contract.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
That's what happened with Mangold's and Evans' contract too, for as far as I know
They got those big upfront payments too.
Note that Penn had a lot less leverage than Joseph will. Penn was a restricted free agent who they had tendered. Joseph is a premiere free agent who they can’t restrict and who will attract a lot of money on the open market.
They got Penn on a cheap contract with limited guarantees because they could. The Bucs do prefer a ‘pay as you go’ approach, as evidenced by their cash expenses being close to their salary cap number. But here’s the thing: they can either choose to frontload contracts for players they want to keep to no extra long-term cost to them, or they can go out and sign multiple extra free agents, which will cost them extra money.
The point of this post wasn't "this is what they will do"
Because I don’t know that. The point was that if they choose to do so, the Bucs can get to the salary floor without necessarily grabbing multiple expensive free agents.
I understand.
I just don’t think they will go this route. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I’m just glad to finally be interested in football again.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
^ Agreed ^
Pay everyone the majority of their money early why? So they have no reason to work hard, because they already got the biggest chunk of their money. If they play like crap and eventually get cut, they get to go and sign another big money deal with someone else, since as you said he is the top guard on the market
Again: I'm talking about money they were going to get anyway
Whether that paycheck is going to be paid in the first or last year of a contract doesn’t matter, it’s going to get paid anyway.
Besides, the kind of player who will only play hard when he can earn more money should not be the kind of player you re-sign anyway.
Well-said
Basically I don’t understand the logic of just staying the course and re-signing a bunch of players for more than their market value when so many free agents are out there that could immediately make us more competitive.
Nor do I. It could be a matter of keeping the evils you know rather than taking a risk on the evils you don’t know. Not that I think that’s a valid approach to roster management, but it kind of makes sense…
Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?
Also I'm curious how much of Hawk's contract was based on extending what he was already making with his huge rookie contract.
What’s the correlation between guys and their rookie contracts compared to their second contract? Even if they are comparable players will Hawk make significantly more than Black because one made 550K in 2010 and one that was a fifth overall draft pick.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I know. But giving a guy a contract that was already making 4M compared to a guy who was making 550K isn't the same.
One is getting a significant raise. I’m not saying it should play into it, but it seems like Hawk’s agent could push for the fact that his client wasn’t going to take a pay cut. Whereas Black’s agent can only point to other comparable players and their contracts.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
And at this point draft status should be irrelevant in contract negotiations
Black has mutliple years of work now, so does Hawk. I think they’re pretty much comparable players in terms of value to their teams.
I'm not talking about draft status, but the rookie contracts they sign and what that means for their second contracts.
Do you believe that all players start from scratch and are evaluated on talent alone for their second contract, or does the fact that they were already making significant amounts of money play into it. It seems to play into it a bit in my opinion.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I disagree.
It doesn’t play into it directly but in my opinion it is an intangible negotiating factor.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Player A makes 550K. Player B makes 4M.
They are entirely equal. Both players re-sign with the same team. Player A has less leverage than player B.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Because Player A has been toiling away for years for "peanuts"
while player B has become accustomed to a certain pay for play ratio. Player A is much more likely to sign a contract for 3M than player B is, which gives player B more leverage in commanding more.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Even though it isn't always fair
I still believe that some GMs might look at former first round picks as guys that “have more potential” and just didn’t “fit their former scheme”. Where a mid round pick will have more trouble getting big money because they weren’t exactly “wanted commodities” when any team could have signed them originally
Player A has just as much leverage as Player B during negotiations, because they have the same hole card. They can both choose to walk if not offered a market value contract, instead going somewhere else, to a team that WILL offer them market value. It doesn’t matter how much each one is accustomed to making. Granted, some players will intentionally take less than they could’ve, in an effort to stay with the team they’ve been with, but that’s something that THEY chose to do.
In free agent negotiations, the player has the majority of the leverage because most of the time there are multiple teams bidding for their service. If one isn’t willing to pay, another will be. And if that one’s not willing to pay, the Raiders will.
I disagree.
I believe the former contract plays a psychological role in the negotiations. Unless Player B has severely underperformed (ala Alex Smith) he should not be expected to take a pay cut from his rookie contract.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
AJ Hawk took a paycut
Players take paycuts all the time. It’s why they’re on finite contracts that end after a couple of years and will be renegotiated.
None of this applies to players who negotiate extensions: the player has leverage depending on his draft status, because he still has a contract related to that draft status.
How so? He took a pay cut on what he would have been paid in the extremely back loaded rookie contract (He was due 10M this year and he's hardly Patrick Willis or Karlos Dansby)
but he still got essentially the same contract.
Rookie deal: six years 37.5M
New contract: five years 33.75M
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
But it was signed five years later
In terms of value within the market, he got a top-of-the-line deal in his rookie contract, but got a pretty mediocre contract last season. While in actual dollar amounts the contract may not have been a paycut (though looking at total value is a poor way of judging that), his value in the market clearly dropped, a lot.
Right. And deservedly so, but I don't think he even sniffs 33M unless his former contract played into it a bit.
Black will be lucky to get 20M for 5 years in my opinion. He, like Hawk has failed to live up to his expectations, but his starting point in negotiations is not equal to Hawks.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Let's just agree to disagree, then
I haven’t seen much evidence that this would be the case, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen of course.
Black is also nowhere near the player that Hawk is. Both are physical talents, but Hawk has solid production that show he’s capable of putting it together. Black flashes, where Hawk is consistent. Granted Hawk’s consistently at a level lower than where everyone thought he would be, but he’s still very reliable.
I certainly hope that if the Bucs...
start throwing money around (since they will have to) it isn’t wasted on a disappointing marginal player like Black that shows the occasional flash, but has really failed to put it all together. There are some much more productive players out there, and that opportunity also needs to be pursued.
by Cracker Ball on Jul 16, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Draft Status always plays a big role in negotiations....
Draft status is why a player like Chris Johnson will never see half the money of a back of similar production like Adrian Peterson. Draft status is why you see a QB like Alex Smith, get so many cracks at starting. Or a guy like Joey Harrington hung around in the league for so long when it was apparent after his second season that he was TRASH. Its rare that a player can gain that ground they lost by not being a top 2 round pick. On the flip side a high draft status is why teams keep taking chances on bums drafted high in the draft.
Chris Johnson was a first-round draft pick
And his next contract is going to set the market for running backs. So will Adrian Peterson’s next contract when he gets there.
Later round draft picks get huge contracts when they perform. The problem is that some of them may want to re-sign earlier while they still have years left on their deal, which removes a lot of their leverage. If they wait until they hit free agency proper, they get paid just as much as high draft picks with equal performance.
Ok, starting at the beginning. Chris Johnson will eventually see Adrian Peterson money, as long as he keeps competing and playing at an Adrian Peterson level. The problem Johnson ran into is that the league rules limited the amount of a contract restructure that could be done at the time, so when he is able to sign his next contract with the Titans, his pay will skyrocket.
As for Alex Smith, the reason he is getting so many cracks at starting is the same reason he was drafted high, I.E. he has the potential to be a better quarterback than a good portion of the league. His draft placement became irrelevant the minute he restructured his contract a few years back to take a MASSIVE paycut to stay with the Niners. The team no longer had a huge amount of money invested in him, which meant that if he didn’t work out there would be less hesitation to cut him. Instead, he still continued to show flashes of the player he could be with some stability around him, which is why Harbough is talking about Smith continuing to QB for the Niners.
Joey Harrington is an unfortunate occurence, the same as David Carr was. Just like Carr early in his career, he didn’t have the talent around him to succeed. Because Harrington played for a piss-poor franchise, his development was terrible, and he eventually busted out because he never improved. Same with Carr, he had an o-line not worthy of the name, so he set league records for sacks taken and became gun-shy.
Players drafted high are given multiple chances for one reason, no matter how poorly they’ve been playing, they still almost always have enormous talent that the team is hoping they can harness.
Fact is if th Bucs Want a Player, they got em
The Bucs have over 40 Million they have to spend for the 2011 season, Give front loaded Contracts, so we can sign our own young players in 2 years to long term deals.
IMO, the Bucs need to bring in 4 OLinemen (Starting RT, LG and RG as well as a Back up that can be a starter (Lutui and Joseph for example). This would allow the Bucs to Focus on CB, C, LB in the next Draft, without worry about the other positions.
Almost 50 comments. Welcome back BN
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
In that case, I'd like to trade him in for something more like this...
Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?
That's unfortunate
as they are more numerous than any other kind
Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?
I never thought of it like that lol
Native American chicks. Long story short, there the next link past Asian but with a tan.. gotta love em. But be careful, the one I was involved was 6’4" and easily 220+. I wanted babies so my kids would look like Satchmo but it never materialized. She could of easily killed me at any given notice
((b-town))
I dated one for a couple of years...
and I tried my best to keep her away from the fire water. A very mean drunk.
by Cracker Ball on Jul 16, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
She had her moments...
but you never really knew what was coming. I generally returned my tray to its locked and upright position and braced for impact.
by Cracker Ball on Jul 17, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with Sanders.
No need to go out and pay for Namdi or any big name free agent that isn’t a buc. Honestly, I don’t want Namdi on this team. Throughout his entire career at Oakland he has played a much different role than that of most elite corners. Unlike Revis or even Talib, Namdi doesn’t stick to an opposing teams best receiver, he sticks only to the right side of the field (the defenses right, not the offences). Since most QBs are right handed, that means he plays to the side they are “weaker” to. Many teams still find success by moving their elite players away from Namdi. If he were to stick to a teams #1 like, say, Revis does, I don’t think he’d have the numbers he has now. That’s not to say he isn’t a great player, just that he isn’t exactly what his numbers emulate. Also, he is 30, and is at the peak of his career. Why pay for a player that doesn’t fit our “Young gun” persona? I say do what the Pack and the Steelers do and build through the draft and through players already on our roster. Don’t give away big money to non-bucs.
Also
this is off topic, but I normally get these articles from twitter, but recently I haven’t received any tweets and all the old links do not work anymore. Anyone know why?
I'm not sure
Maybe you’re still following the old account from way back when? Twitter account is @Bucs_Nation
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