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Could the Bucs move to a 3-4?

Lawrence Taylor revolutionized the game, and the way the 3-4 is played

I'm moving this feature back up the front page because with Wade Phillips coming in for an interview on Friday, this has suddenly become very relevant again. This feature was written back in February so some of the information is a little out-dated in terms of the Bucs' personnel, but the general point still stands.

The Bucs introduced a new defense for passing downs, or nickel situations, this year: the 3-3-5. This means 3 defensive linemen, 3 linebackers, and 5 defensive backs are on the field. This scheme was ostensibly created to keep Quincy Black on the field, even though Black's impact wasn't that big. In the past the Bucs used to go to to a 4-2-5 set in nickel situations, taking the OLB not named 'Derrick Brooks' off the field in favor of an extra defensive back. In 2009 with Brooks gone, Quincy Black was the linebacker to come off the field. In fact, that's the standard around the league when faced with nickel situations: take off a linebacker, and put in a defensive back. Whether the team runs a 3-4, 4-3 or some hybrid, almost all of them do that. And when a 3-4 team removes a linebacker and brings on a defensive back, they end up with a 3-3-5 scheme, like the Bucs ran this year in nickel situations. So a very logical question follows from that: can the Bucs expend that package and go to running a 3-4 full time? The answer to that question is: it depends on what you think a 3-4 defense is. To answer the question properly, we're going to have to go into the different versions of the 3-4.

First, we need to be clear on what the Bucs run right now: a 1-gap 4-3. This means 4 down linemen, 3 linebackers, and everyone has his own 'gap'. In theory, if everyone fills his own gap, there's no room to run. Of course, one missed assignment, tackle or good block by an offensive lineman and there's some running room. I've inserted a quick diagram of a typical 4-3 defense, where you can see how every lineman has his own gap. The letters show a common method of referring to different gaps: the A-gap is the gap between the guard and the center, the B-gap is the gap between the guard and tackle, and the C-gap is the gap to the outside of the tackle.

4-3_medium

So now that we know that, we can move on to the 3-4. There are essentially two different 3-4 schemes. One is what is generally called the Parcells scheme, after the former coach who ran it very succesfully throughout his career. He most famously ran this scheme with the Giants where Lawrence Taylor was able to shine as perhaps the best linebacker to ever play the game. This kind of 3-4 is very different from the 4-3 above, as it calls for the 3 down linemen to each guard two different gaps. This will ideally leave the linebackers free to make plays. The playmakers in this system are the linebackers, not the defensive linemen. The linemen set up the play and the linebackers finish it off. Hit the jump to see what this looks like.

Star-divide

3-4belichick_medium

This is from the week 1 Bengals-Patriots game. Belichick grew up as a coach under Bill Parcells, and he probably runs the purest form of the Parcells 3-4 in the NFL. As you can see, there are 3 defensive linemen and 4 linebackers. If you compare this to the diagram above you'll see that unlike a 4-3 there are no defensive linemen aligned outside the offensive tackle. Furthermore, the defensive linemen are all aligned more or less head-up over an offensive lineman, which would allow them to control that blocker and the two gaps to the side of him. The two linebackers on the end of the line act more or less as defensive linemen as well, but in pass-rushing situations you'll usually see the weakside linebacker rushing the passer with the strongside linebacker dropping into coverage to create a 4-man rush - that is, if they don't blitz, which happens frequently with some 3-4 schemes. Dick LeBeau is especially famous for his use of pressure from different positions while dropping out other players, all from this type of scheme. Rex and Rob Ryan also run similar schemes, all with their own twists. None of these schemes are exactly the same, but the key to all of them is that defensive linemen control two gaps and hold their ground, while the linebackers make plays. And this is where the Bucs personnel clashes with the system: the linemen the Bucs have all specialize in penetrating the line of scrimmage instead of holding their ground, and they don't have the type of impact linebacker that can be featured in this type of scheme. So this should answer the question, right? The Bucs won't move to a 3-4? Nope. Because there's another type of 3-4: the Phillips 3-4.

This scheme is named after Bum Phillips and his son Wade Phillips, who made it famous. This scheme has 3 defensive linemen and 4 linebackers, as the name implies, but it is more similar to a 4-3 scheme than a Parcells 3-4 scheme philosophically. The Phillips 3-4 is focused on penetrating the line of scrimmage instead of controlling each blocker. While the alignment looks nearly identical to that of a Parcells 3-4, its execution is very different. This difference is perhaps best seen in nickel situations, when the Phillips 3-4 changes to a 2-4-5, at least as it's run by the Cowboys. This plays essentially like a 4-2-5, the standard nickel package of 4-3 teams. You can clearly see this below.

3-4_phillips_nickel_medium

To run this scheme, you need at least one dominant interior lineman, preferably a nose tackle, and outside linebackers that can drop into coverage, play the run and rush the passer. The scheme can be molded to the specific talents of each player - for instance, Demarcus Ware is such a great pass rusher that he only rarely drops into coverage, and a dominant player like Bruce Smith can become the focus of the scheme at DE as well. But in general, the scheme is made for the outside linebackers and the nose tackle. And incidentally, I think this fits the Bucs to some extent. Gerald McCoy should have no problem playing nose tackle the way Ratliff plays the position, and McCoy in fact has already done so in the 3-3-5 package the Bucs run. Brian Price would be a great fit at either of the end positions, and it would allow both McCoy and Price to be on the field at the same time, while giving them some one-on-one matchups in pass-rush situations. But to run this scheme the Bucs would need at least one capable, pass-rushing linebacker. And they don't have that at this point, which is a key problem.

Ultimately I think it's unlikely the Bucs do switch to a 3-4 scheme, but the key to this may be the draft. If the Bucs cannot draft an impact defensive end in the first round, they will likely draft an impact outside linebacker with pass rush abiliities - like Justin Houston or Akeem Ayers. If they have that linebacker they will want to feature him within the scheme, and the Phillips 3-4 could be perfect for that.

As for the 3-3-5, I don't think it's here to stay either. The problem this year was that we really didn't have effective and consistent pass rushers, and Morris countered that by blitzing and basically giving up the pass rush with a 3-man rush. The blitzes never really worked, so the 3-3-5 took over as the dominant defense in passing situations. When the Bucs are capable of getting a pass rush with 4 down linemen again, I think we will see the 3-3-5 largely disappear.

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This would have made more sense last off season.

You know before we drafted 2 DT’s with the ideal skill sets for the 4-3. The problem here is the huge difference in personnel to switch defenses. I mean look at 09 when all we did was switch types of 4-3 defenses. It takes years to collect the right players to run a whole new scheme and it would mean years of rebuilding. Once MCCoy started to come alive our best pressure came with 4 lineman and if we can add a DE or two we will have a really good defense. I really disagree with your assessment of McCoy being a good nose tackle. He is an ideal 4-3 under tackle and will excel there next year.

by Pirate25 on Feb 19, 2011 8:13 AM EST reply actions  

If you look at the way McCoy played the nose and the way Ratliff played the nose

They’re very very similar. This isn’t the space-eating, double-team busting nose tackle role. This is a penetrating, beat-your-man-and-get-after-it role.

by Sander on Feb 19, 2011 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Great write-up.

I too think it’s unlikely they go to anything full-time, but wouldn’t be surprised if he toyed with it on a regular basis.

Formerly UNFNole

by MNeilson on Feb 19, 2011 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

I can see

McCoy on the the outside with Price going up the middle…McCoy is just soo quick for his size and Price is just so strong…I can see us going that way…but we wont this year…

by shadowchicken on Feb 19, 2011 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder if

Miller could eat NT with GM and Price on ends as a 3-3-5? Maybe McKenzie gets some pass rush

by Titankillah on Feb 19, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Moving to a 3-4 would be taking a step back

the last time we tried a new defense we looked like a high school JV team when we switched back to what we do we got back to playing bucball, that might of saved Rah job that year. Rah version of the Tampa2 is good cause the group of guys we have play best when they are able to fly around and make plays, we don’t have the personnel to run a 3-4 plus we don’t know if the 3-3-5 is done with, it is a new wrinkle that Rah tried and the guys have to get use to it hence the offense played better in year 2 under olson with better knowledge and better players, this may be the same with Rah defense, my question to you Sander is if you were Rah and you get you pass rushing DE either through Free agency or the draft would you switch to the 3-4

by keysersoze19 on Feb 19, 2011 9:10 PM EST reply actions  

First off Olson sucks with the running game

Worst play calling and he needs to have Freeman get into the run-audible game.

Turning into a 3-4 would be ridiculous because we have no great reason to bring another linebacker into the mix when we have no stand outs. What’d be the point? To be mediocre?

by Titankillah on Feb 20, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

It appears that we have that down pat defensively...

Seriously, I don’t see any real advantage to change our base defense based on our current personnel. A 4-3 is still an effective formation but we don’t have the horses for either right now.

by Cracker Ball on Feb 20, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey, there's Keyser!!! How ya doing bud?

Well I don’t think it’s a step back, because there’s nowhere to step back too. We’re standing on the last inch of a very tall cliff. And honestly Keyser, we got worse after they let Bates go, so we really have no where to go but up. Either way, we need to do some drastic changes on our D, but at the same time we have to be able to score points. It’s gonna be a while before we can compete for the division title, cause not only can we not stop our division foes, we can’t score on them either. I’m not afraid of the 3-4, and I’m for anything that works, and it’s working right now for what seems like most of the league.

Where the heck is Keyser?

by bucnut1 on Jan 9, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

As I said in the post, what we do may depend on the kind of talent we get in the draft/free agency

If we get a good pass-rushing linebacker, we could see a move to a Phillips 3-4, because then we’d have a lot of talent that would fit that system. Similarly, if we get a good DE I think we stick with a 4-3 and even get rid of the 3-3-5.

by Sander on Feb 20, 2011 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I would have agreed with saying that LT was the greatest pass rushing LB of all time.

But greatest linebacker? Come on man? You can’t overlook the game’s all-time leading defensive signal callers-

What about Dick Butkus? Mike Singletary? I hate the guy, but Ray Lewis?

And even with OLB’s what about Derrick Brooks?

Too many different LBs to say that one of the greatest (definitely greatest pass rushing LB) is the greatest LB to ever play the game.

Go Magic/Bucs/Gators/Rays!

by chiefs_55 on Feb 20, 2011 11:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I'll stick by my statement

And so does the NFL Top 100: http://top100.nfl.com/

Lawrence Taylor fundamentally changed the way the game. That’s a big, big accomplishment for a single player.

by Sander on Feb 20, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Lawrence Taylor probablt is the greatest LB to play...

but it would be much more difficult to achieve without the luxury of having some great play from the other LBs on the team – Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks, Harry Carson, etc.

by Cracker Ball on Feb 20, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

His threat as a pass rusher changed the game...

But Derrick Brooks also changed the way the game is played. He is “The Prototype”. It can’t even be argued that there’s ever been a better coverage linebacker.

And Dick Butkus defined the MLB position. Defined it!

Go Magic/Bucs/Gators/Rays!

by chiefs_55 on Feb 20, 2011 7:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I wil do u one better about Brooks

there has never been another OLB who has done what he did, and from what I see so far there will never be another one who can do what he did, I mean I can’t even this of another OLB who calls their teams defense

by keysersoze19 on Feb 20, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Brooks changed the way the game was played

And I don’t think Butkus did either. There were players like them before they existed,though they weren’t as good as they were. That really wasn’t the case for LT. And now his position -the position he essentially created – is one of the most highly valued positions in the NFL.

by Sander on Feb 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Butkus changed the way the game was played by forcing the league to make new rules.

Face masks, clothes lines, and so on, so yeah, he made an impact.

Where the heck is Keyser?

by bucnut1 on Jan 9, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

All those other linebackers mentioned were great, and they may have had played at a high level for longer, but Lawrence Taylor had a 3-5 year period where he was the most dominating physical presence on either side of the field. Very few players have ever reached that level, and no other linebacker has.

by maxzingo on Feb 20, 2011 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

3/4

The 3/4 worked for coach John Mckay. everybody said it was college football. Ah, what kind of defence won the SB? We don’t have the talent up front. We have better linebackers & DB’s than lineman. Keep Davin Joseph by all means. also sing cady for whatever it takes. You can’t buy heart!

                                    Mad Dog/ T.S.

by i heart edward on Feb 22, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

You probably should have copy-pasted this so we had a blank slate of comments

In any case, Sander, who would you put in what positionif we switched to this? Feel free to leave blanks on players you think we’d need to add.

by aakks on Jan 9, 2012 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

Price at nose, McCoy at three-technique, Bennett/Bowers at 5-technique (left defensive end), Clayborn at standup LB/pass-rusher

Only concern I have there is whether Clayborn would translate. At linebacker, I’d put Foster in the middle and find two new linebackers in free agency/the draft.

by Sander on Jan 9, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Not really

Though the Bucs don’t do that now, either, except in some pass rush situations (and then you could do that in the Phillips 3-4 too)

by Sander on Jan 9, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Ya I know

I just have dreams of getting those 5 on the field together.

by aakks on Jan 9, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh and btw, In Mad12 I changed my defensive scheme to 3-4 in franchise

And won 3 back-to-back Sb’s with this front 7. No changes to roster at all. No pickups or gimmicks. ALL MADDEN

by Titankillah on Jan 11, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

After watching Haynesworth and crew out there this year

I am down with a move to the 3-4, Dom’s draft picks and lack of FA acquisitions can really leave the door open for a switch to the 3-4.

We don’t have one guy on our 4-3 D that makes you say, “Yeah, but we can’t switch them to a 3-4”

Fact: we suck

Fact: we need some change

Fact 3-4 would be that change.

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Jan 9, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

Moving to a 3-4 would be a change

Changing for the sake of changing is silly. There needs to be a reason for that change and why it makes sense.

by Sander on Jan 9, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Silly is having Haynesworth on your team bc your Owners and GM wont do any better

Silly is making GMC the 8th highest paid player in the NFL.

Silly was letting Ruud walk, just to resign Q. Black.

Silly was letting all that FA talent walk to other teams this past offseason.

Silly is the current stake of the BUCS D.

A Change would be great, just for the sake of believing in something new. Change would be welcomed.

If the 2011 Buc D is going to be the D we have out there, then why not dismantle in and start anew?

Change makes some sense with these current jokers.

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Jan 9, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think the defensive scheme is a bit overrated

teams have been successful running both the 4-3 and the 3-4. It largely depends on the personnel on the team, and what fits them best. If you have a really strong core of LBs, then 3-4 is best, if you have a great defensive line (like the giants), then a 4-3 is best.

With that being said, we don’t have the personnel to succeed in either scheme. The only above average player we have amongst our DE & LBs is Clayborn. Bowers and Price have shown good potential, but ATM they are not above average players. The LB corps is one of the worst in the league. And has been for quite some time. There’s a reason why were so awful at defending the run. Great linebackers rarely make it out of the first round in the draft, and most of our LBs were third round talent and that has certainly showed.

by J_B on Jan 9, 2012 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

Isn't Dekoda a pass-rushing LB?

"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"

by 4QB on Jan 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST reply actions  

Bowers

Bower would be the logical fit for the D ware and Taylor role. Clayborn need to stay at the line.

by Red86 on Jan 9, 2012 5:01 PM EST reply actions  

Exactly, though he has good hustle and plays the run good

I think he’s too bulky to be a proper LB, but what do i know? ^ check my 3-4 setup up a few posts

by Titankillah on Jan 11, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking about this the other day

When Wade Phillips was named as being someone the Bucs were interested in as a head coach, I nearly gagged. When I thought about what he could do if we somehow brought him in as a defensive coordinator though, I considered what we could do with our personnel.

I think Clayborn could probably handle the RDE spot in a Phillips 3-4. He’s strong enough and big enough to be a decent fit, and since his Erb’s Palsey means he apparently can’t play on the other side, I would be less than comfortable with him as an OLB. Sanders arguements about GMC at the nose make sense to me, as does putting Price at the other DE slot. Price is a big body who can also penetrate the line. Miller we could probably plug in at NT, but I would save him for a more reserve role, allowing us to change the line around a little bit on the fly by putting him at nose with Price and GMC on the outside.

Bowers I think would make a fairly good rush OLB, similar to what Mario Williams was asked to do this year before his injury. I don’t know how well he would do in coverage (I’m assuming not very well), but he would be functional I believe. This would allow us to slide Black to the other ILB slot along Foster, where he can be used as a very occasional pass rusher but mostly be asked to cover while Foster crushes the run. Geno at the other OLB spot I have no concerns about.

I think we have the personnel to make switching to a 3-4 a feasible idea. Whether it would be an effective one is anyone’s guess. All I know is right now the Bucs can’t even really play a 4-3 all that well, despite recent infusions of talent.

by KRoa on Jan 11, 2012 11:51 AM EST reply actions  


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