Is Raheem Morris unhappy with the quality of the players on his team?
by Sander on Dec 5, 2011 12:01 PM EST
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This offseason, the Bucs encountered what may have been the biggest free agent bonanza in NFL history. With two years of restricted free agents hitting the market simultaneously, a lot of talented players could help the Bucs. Some reports suggested the Bucs made some inquiries regarding a few of those players: CBs Nnamdi Asomugha and Johnathan Joseph were mentioned, as was T Doug Free. In the end the only quality free agent the Bucs signed was P Michael Koenen. And while that signing has worked out very well, it's hard not to ask "What if the Bucs had invested more in free agency."
And it seems that Raheem Morris is asking that same question. In his post-game press conference he said a lot of the right things: he took the blame for the loss, he would improve, he was not doing a good enough job and the team would just have to get better all around. But he also took some stabs at the quality of the players. Stephen Holder has made this point before, and did it again in reference to those quotes: Raheem Morris does not seem too happy with the quality of the players he has on the team right now.
The Bucs haven't yet made Raheem's press conference available, but The St. Petersburg Times has collected a few of those key quotes. So I'll take a look at a few of them, and see what they can tell us. Hit the jump for the quotes and analysis.
(In response to a question about needing better personnel)
There's no doubt about that. Obviously when you go out there and you give up 160 yards rushing and Cam Newton scrambles for a 22-yard big one, we had another big one popped out of there of 31 yards by Jonathan Stewart, you have to constantly try to improve our football team, which we will do. But you do see some positive pieces. We just have to make sure they become more consistent and smarter."
It can't be any more obvious than this: when asked about needing better personnel, Raheem Morris said "yes, please".
I need to go back and make sure we continue to build this team for the future. We've got a lot of young players. I don't want things to get away from us. We've got a lot of young, talented football players.
The key here: building for the future. This isn't about winning now, not anymore. But it also seems to signal a commitment to improving the team, and a certain amount of doubt that they've done enough. Raheem feels he needs to check whether they're still on track with building for the future. The six straight losses would suggest some problems there.
And we're getting better on defense as far as personnel. I don't want to make everything "Oh woe is me". To see Bowers go out there and play with the effort he gave today, that was certainly something special. To see Clayborn go out there and play with the effort he gave today, that was certainly something special. Knowing you're going to get some of those guys back and continue to build for the future, and to get a chance to go out there and watch a guy like Madu go out there and make a couple of plays, to be a part of the rotation, to get in there, to see some light is what we're looking for.
I think we see the same issue here: the lack of quality players, specifically on defense. Raheem feels they're getting better on defense with personnel, but that also suggests they're not there yet, and the results would certainly agree with that assessment.
I feel like this point had to be made: Raheem Morris isn't happy with the personnel he's been given. We don't know what the relationship is between Morris and Dominik, but it was pretty clear this offseason that if it had been up to Morris, the Bucs would have re-signed Ruud. Clearly he doesn't make the final calls. So to what extent does the blame for this six-game slide fall on Mark Dominik's shoulders?
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Morris was more than willing to take credit for coaching up those young players last season when they went 10-6
so he can spare me the pity party. But, as I said in my post the other day, I think most of the blame lies with Mark Dominik and his penny pinching ways. For the most part, you pay for talent in the NFL. Not surprising that a team with an exceptionally low payroll is exceptionally devoid of talent compared to the rest of the league.
How big of an ego does Dominik have? I don’t understand why he thinks he is so much smarter than the other 31 GMs. Stubborn refusal to acquire free agents definitely hurt this team this season.
Morris’ defense wouldn’t be good with any amount of talent in my opinion. It is uncreative and just simply doesn’t work. That is on his shoulders and no one else.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I disagree with this
Dominik was not the only one to stay quiet in free agency this offseason, so “being smarter than everyone else” does not play into it if you ask me. ‘The plan’ of building through the draft is not a bad one, and it’s a plan a lot of perennial winners (Steelers, Packers, Colts) follow.
Has that led to some talent deficiencies at some points? Yes. Is that the reason the Bucs lost six games in a row? No. You can’t tell me the Bucs don’t have the talent to beat the Titans, or the Panthers, or the Bears in England for that matter.
I think the Colts got away with a lot with Manning under center
as is being shown now.
We are not Green Bay. We didn’t have the luxury of letting our first round quarterback come around slowly the way Rodgers did with Favre. Take him out of Green Bay and they are an average team at best.
Every team wants to be like Pittsburgh, but not every team can draft like them. Also, Green Bay and Pittsburgh have team salaries of $129.8M and $116M respectively. They have years of good draft picks that have been re-signed and committed to long term deals. We have Quincy Black. Please stop comparing Dominik with the GMs in Green Bay and Pittsburgh. If I open a hamburger stand I can say I want to run it like McDonalds, but I don’t have the tools or expertise to do so.
If the Glazer’s want the franchise to run that way, then they need to steal some talent from the front offices of the organizations they envy.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
If you want to be Green Bay or Pittsburgh, you have to start at some point
And I don’t get the hatred for Dominik. He’s done an excellent job drafting players and finding talent both early and late in the draft.
I don't think he has done that great of a job.
I think a lot of the late round guys starting on this team like Biggers and Lorig don’t even make the 53 man roster on most teams. Just because they make the roster doesn’t make them anything great. They faced virtually no competition for the positions they earned.
If a rookie comes in and outplays a veteran to earn a starting spot then credit should be given, but when a 7th round draft pick comes in and makes the roster by default, then I’m not impressed.
I don’t hate Dominik, but I think he exhibits too much hubris in his plan and doesn’t adjust on the fly. Even if the “plan” is working (which I think we can clearly say is not right now) he had a chance to accelerate the speed of it coming to fruition with the unexpected slew of free agents last year. He also seems to greatly overestimate the talent we already have on the roster. Thinking Biggers and Mack are good enough and not signing any new corners was ridiculous.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I'm not basing my evaluation on the fact that those players are playing, but on how they're playing
Biggers has easily outplayed his draft slot. Lorig has contributed, but he’s just a fullback so whatever. But finding players like Sammie Stroughter, or Cody Grimm, or Dekoda Watson, or Preston Parker, or Ted Larsen, or Legarrette Blount, or Dezmon Briscoe in the draft or off waivers is pretty good.
The only real knock on Dominik’s plan is the lack of free agency spending. But that’s a part of that philosophy that has worked very well for other teams.
How long is this plan supposed to take to come to fruition?
Four years? Five years? No reasonable GM can expect a fan base to put up with and stay supportive for a plan that takes that long to even look competitive. No one has that much blind faith. If we had won eight games this year I would be perfectly content, but the fact that we are so clearly outclassed and we’re three years in is unforgivable to me.
All of the players you listed are about replacement level with the exception of Blount. I like Cody Grimm, but the reason he wasn’t drafted earlier was because of his size and he has been injury prone. I don’t think Stroughter, Watson, Larsen or Briscoe make roughly 27/32 teams roster right now. I doubt any other them would be claimed if we put them on waivers tomorrow.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I strongly disagree with that last statement
Teams do not have as much talent on their rosters as you seem to think. People make sweeping statements like that about the Bucs’ players pretty frequently, but a lot of teams out there struggle at a lot of different positions. You think a linebacker with Watson’s speed and physical traits doesn’t get picked up? Or that Larsen wouldn’t be an improvement for some starters and at the very least a lot of backups in the league? There are a lot of bad offensive lines out there. And not a lot of teams have a lot of depth at WR to forego someone like Briscoe, either. Not that any of those players are world beaters, but they are at the least solid backups with potential to become more.
And I don’t really care whether a fanbase is going to stay supportive of the plan or not. I care whether it’s the right thing to do for this franchise in the long term. And yes, I think Dominik has shown that his plan is working. This team has much more talent now than it did when he started.
That doesn’t mean that Dominik shouldn’t dabble more in free agency. I think passing up the opportunity to go after Johnathan Joseph or Doug Free was a bad move. But that doesn’t negate the work he has done.
I don't care whether or not you care.
We’re the ones that live here and have to deal with blackouts and we are the ones that spend our hard earned money on this team to keep it afloat. We are the ones that are being asked to show faith in a plan that has us finishing dead last in the division in the third year. I’m sure it’s easy to say you don’t care when you live 1,000s of miles away, but you don’t go to work every day and the main topic of conversation is how bad the Buccaneers suck. It’s fine and dandy if you want to be the dispassionate observer from afar, but don’t try to tell us that the plan is working. You’re not that good of a salesman.
As for the players getting picked, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Every team in the NFL has players exactly like Dezmon Briscoe. If we very deep at a position and our scraps got claimed that would be one thing, but to think our 4th WR, which is a position of weakness on this team, would get picked up is laughable. Maybe the Rams, but that’s about the only team I can see taking a stab at him.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
If the Bucs start doing things just to create excitement, they're doing things for exactly the wrong reasons
They’d turn into the Redskins awfully fast. That’s why I say I don’t care whether fans are excited or supportive. Fan support and excitement does not buy wins.
Fan support and excitement drives revenue
which begets consistency from the front office and personnel, which begets wins. It’s a full circle and to think that fan support doesn’t play a part in it is false.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Yes, but you can't create long-term fan excitement without wins
And that’s what the Bucs need to create. Wins beget excitement and support. Forget about budget, or bringing in big names, or whatever else: if you can’t win, all that doesn’t matter. Win, and fan excitement will build. That was easy to see this offseason and after the 4-2 start this year.
And while I don’t disagree that the Bucs would do well to add a few free agent pieces (as I advocated this offseason), I don’t think you can say that the plan is not working given the talent that has been accumulated. That is ultimately what the front office does: accumulate talent.
I don't think the talent accrued is exceptional by any means.
QB: Aveage with potential
RB: Average or slightly above
WR: Below average
TE: Below average
OL: Above average
DL: Below average now, but lots of potential
LB: Below average
DB: Below average
How is that stocking talent?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
by LeeCaz on Dec 5, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the Bucs have a much more talented team than they did when Dominik took over
Obviously they’re not playing well right now and that makes it easy to write off everything as “below average”, but I don’t think that’s the case. I do think the Bucs still have plenty of talent at WR, which has played better in recent weeks anyway. I do think the Bucs have a very talented QB who is just going through a rough spot. And the Bucs have above average talent along the defensive line, easily. At defensive end that talent is producing, and at defensive tackle that talent is mostly injured (but that’s hardly Dominik’s fault).
The biggest issue is that Hayes and Black have seriously regressed (which, again, isn’t Dominik’s fault) and safety/cornerback are a problem.
Yes, the Bucs can improve on a lot of those areas. But they also have improved significantly over the past years already.
I think the same can be said of any team over the course of three years
Especially one that had such a low starting point. I just don’t think Dominik has done anything exceptionally, and I think his policy on free agents has hurt the team. The talent is not producing at defensive end, I believe it will, but we are still 2nd to last in the NFL in sacks.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
That sack number has as much to do with coverage and youth as it does with talent
Conversely, the team was tied for fourth in tackles for loss going into last week’s game.
Anyway, I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a lot of teams who did much better in the draft than the Bucs over the past three years. And while I don’t disagree about the free agency thing, I don’t think you can lay most of the blame for this season with him.
Where do you get team tackle for loss stats?
I’d be interested to see those?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
which specific category do you click for team tackles for loss.
I’m not finding it. Must be looking in wrong places.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Season Stats (if you're not already looking there)
Then Individual on the left, Defense. You won’t see an overview of all teams, but there’s a total at the bottom and you can go by all the teams to see who has the most. That’s what I did.
Just did it and they fell to sixth with 66 TFL
That lines up favorably with the rest of the league, but there are a lot of teams in that 55-65 range. Not sure we can use that stat as a measuring stick. By my count defensive line has 38 TFL and the LBs and secondary accounted for the rest. Would you guess that’s about average? An even split?
The fact that Bowers is second on the team in tackles for loss, despite such limited playing time is very exciting. Already has eight on the season. Whew!
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
The tackles for loss do get inflated because of the lack of gap discipline, though
That leads to more splash plays, but also more big losses.
I have no clue on the DL/LB split, really. I would think that’s fairly DL-heavy given the quality of the Bucs’ linebacker play, but I haven’t really checked it.
and 2 years ago the
QB NONE
RB BROKE DOWN
WR NONE AT LEAST WE PICKED UP SOME TALENT
TE NONE
OL AVG
DL NONE not one player still here
LB blew ass
DB we need just one corner and a SS now..
Exactly, Dominik has been able to pick up some talent and we are definitely a better team than we were 3
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
(Oops) than we were 3 years ago.
What Gruden and Monty were able to do with that team despite losing the last 4 games speaks to their coaching abilities – they were great coaches. That’s what we are truly missing right now – better coaching and leadership.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
This is how i would have it ranked (2 changes
QB: Aveage with potential
RB: Average or slightly above
WR: Average or slightly above
TE: Below average
OL: Above average
DL: Average with lots of potential
LB: Below average
DB: Below average
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
This above list seems more accurate...
with a slight change:
RB – Take away LGB and we are well below average
OL – Penn and Davin Joseph can’t play all 5 positions, so we still need a better RT (sorry Trueblood, you are a liability) and upgrading the other G and C positions would be a very good idea.
Completely agree CB.
RT has been a liability. Still think we are ok on the G position but Faine is starting to create some problems as well. Still think this OL is average to above average range though.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
And no one is asking them to create tons of excitement
They are asking them to perennially have one of the lowest payrolls in the league and to put a winning product on the field as soon as possible. Stock piling draft picks is useless unless they can put a winning product on the field. We aren’t winning, thus it’s time to adjust the plan.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
*to not perennially
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Trueblood and Quincy were FA's
The only one of our own worth bringing back was Davin.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 5, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps
but fullbacks are a dime a dozen. Was he drafted with making him a fullback in mind? I can’t remember if that was the plan all along.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
That should be more of a credit to Raheem and his staff making the best of what they had to work with
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
It's not uncommon for DEs to convert to FBs, though
Bruce Miller did the same thing in San Francisco this year. That versatility (and special teams play) probably played into the decision to draft him.
Excellent drafting might be pushing it
The jury is still out, but it is not looking excellent to me. I’d buy adequate. I’d also buy too early to call. Excellent though? No way.
Yugly.
Dominik has been good at drafting, but he's been horrible at signing FA's...
(Ward) including our own (Black, Clayton) not to mention the ones that got away (Free, Joseph).
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
I really think Dom needs to be on the hot seat just as much as Morris.
We had some huge, obvious, holes and we made no improvements in free agency beyond our new punter. The ‘plan’ is a stinking hole in the ground right now.
However, that fact should not save Raheem’s job. Despite our holes, we have just been flat our embarrassed over and over again. There are obvious, fundamental, coaching problems with the guys we have.
Yugly.
the other side of the coin in FA is having an evironment that
FA’s want to come to. at this point yes it would have been nice to have the players mentioned but i dont think you can just throw money at people and want them to hop aboard this mess. players in FA, i feel, dont want to go to a re-building team as years are precious in the NFL. looking at the FA’s mentioned above:
Nnamdi: Eagles, consistently a good team and a contender (which he didnt get in OAK).
Joseph: Texans, a team that many felt were contenders this year, great offensive pieces and they hired a DC with a name and a good scheme.
Free: Cowboys, at the start of the season i would have said the bucs and boys were the same team, so that being said jerry jones has a blind commitment to his team and has shown he will spend $ to keep his team from being a laughing stock. so its that or ‘come to a team with a lot of young players who need 2-3 years to develop’.
bucs fan landlocked in denver
This is me just venting...
It really has been irking me how everyone has decided to bash Morris on a professional and personal level. Some of the arguments being made are just ignorant. They want to burn the guy at the stake one year after they wanted to put him on a pedestal. You can not blame him solely for our problems, he has to coach the guys we have. Right now, we have a rookie MLB who continues to make mistakes in all phases of the game. We gave Geno Hayes, who was supposed to have a breakout year, but instead is having the worst season of his career. In fact, Morris even benched him to try and motivate him, but that hasn’t even worked. Then we have Quincy Black, who got one of the worst contract extensions since Clayton. His play does not deserve any kind of reward, he should be payed as a special teamer or should be cut. Sean Jones, he was solid but unspectacular last year, while this year he has been repeatedly late coming over the top and has really been a liability in both the run and pass. Tanard has made an impact in the passing game, but has been one of the worst in the league in run defense. Biggers is trying hard, but he just can’t physically cut it.
You coach who you are given, and Morris has tried every tactic to try and motivate him team. They aren’t responding. I’m sure he is just as frustrated if not more than us that we are underperforming, as evident with the sending home of Price. Our players are to blame for us underachieving. Mostly everyone on this site that wants to get rid of Morris has this notion that we have this plethora of talent that is just on the cusp of being a great defense. It’s not true, we have holes everywhere other than the DL.
When you fire everyone, that sets the entire team back a year or two. There isn’t any hot shot coach in the mix like last year with Jim Harbaugh. Everyone wants us to hire a coach who we got off the top of the recycle bin, even though the coach they named was fired somewhere else for their inefficiencies. The grass isn’t always greener folks. If Rah is fired, we will still struggle due to our severe lack of talent overall on defense even if we were able to pry away Belichick from NE.
Who is at fault for our lack of talent? It all started with the cleaning of our roster when this regime first started. Then we wanted to commit to building through the draft so much that we are unwilling to sign anyone in FA. We have done well with the whole building through the draft thing, but we haven’t had enough drafts to build a complete team. We have to make some serious improvements this offseason. Neither Dom nor Rah has ever been a GM or HC, respectively. They are learning on the job, and should be given one more chance with a new influx of talent to prove that they know what they are doing. And it is really hard to blame Dom for not putting up big money for Jonathan Joseph or any other FA because we don’t know how much of a leash the Glazers have put on him.
Oderint dum metuant
I have no idea why you think this
Mostly everyone on this site that wants to get rid of Morris has this notion that we have this plethora of talent that is just on the cusp of being a great defense.
That just isn’t true. At all.
Yugly.
So they want to get rid of Morris because he isn't winning with crappy players?
That doesn’t make any sense then. If what you’re saying is true, that everyone knows we have sh-tty players, then why do we blame Morris for it? He coaches who he has. There isn’t some cure-all coach out there that will transform all of our crappy players into a winning group.
Oderint dum metuant
Nobody that I know of has said a new coach would magically fix everything
and it isn’t just that we aren’t winning. It is HOW we are losing. Worst defense. Terrible play calling. No discipline. No preparation. Total failure at game planning. This has been just an embarrassing season.
Morris could be in this same W-L spot right now and be safe if we had hard fought most of these games and showed improvement. We haven’t. We’ve regressed at every single position group from last year other than at DE.
You are swinging at straw men.
Yugly.
You have no idea of how much they are preparing or how the are game planning.
You just get your information from the product on the field. There’s nothing wrong with that, but we prepared the same way last year and no one had a problem with it. Yes you’re correct, our talent has regressed. We would have won 3-4 more games this season if we had better talent on defense. Rah knew how to slow down the packers, we just didn’t have the talent to finish. We had the titans beat, and we had a great play call on the game winning touchdown throw, but Sean Jones and Foster blew their assignments. The lack of talent has much more to do with our losses than the coaching does.
Oderint dum metuant
I don't share your opinion, at all
In fact, I find it mind boggling that you don’t think the coaching is the problem.
And I have plenty of circumstantial evidence that the coaching is the problem. The practices are a problem if you listen to people like Gannon who have watched them. Raheem himself said after yesterday’s game that the players aren’t listening to him anymore. The total failure in discipline this season has been completely evident until Price was sent home in the third quarter yesterday when Raheem didn’t even know what he did to get the penalty. The playcalling on offense has been horrific all season. The defensive schemes have been a total failure.
Frankly, I find it mind boggling that anyone could defend the coaching at this point.
Yugly.
I am not saying Rah and his staff are doing a great job, but I don't think you can say he is the sole reason for our collapse.
I am saying that the talent is the most at fault for our current predicament. Rah is not the best coach in the league, but he also isn’t the worst. The lack of talent will make you look like a bad coach. NE defense is horrible, and Belichick is a defensive genius.
Oderint dum metuant
Again, I never, ever, EVER said he was the sole reason
That was my original point.
And I’m not sure he isn’t the worst coach in the league, although I’d admit he has some competition.
Yugly.
Even though you didn't specifically say it...
you implied it when you said
Terrible play calling. No discipline. No preparation. Total failure at game planning.All of those things have to do with coaching, not with talent, not with anything else.
Oderint dum metuant
They sure do
but I don’t see how you jump from that to the point where I think coaching is the only problem. That is just putting words in my mouth.
But, yes, I think the coaching is terrible.
Yugly.
I'm just going by your reason for why we are losing.
You never mentioned anything other than coaching related issues.
Oderint dum metuant
I was only replying to your comment that it wasn't as big of a deal
So of course that entire comment was coaching. But there are plenty of non-coaching issues too, from receivers dropping easy catches, to Dom’s allegy to free agency, to McCoy’s injury, and more. All of those are real issues. A team isn’t this bad from JUST the coaching, but the coaching is unquestionably atrocious and a change needs to be made.
Yugly.
I don't think the Bucs are that talent deficient
I think a lot of players are playing at a lower level than they were a year ago. Most notably Geno Hayes and Quincy Black, but also Sean Jones and Aqib Talib (despite two very good games vs Green Bay and Tennessee). Tanard Jackson is playing at a lower level than Cody Grimm was last year.
Potential does not equal talent.
Geno and Black both had the potential to be good players, but they have not and most likely will not live up to that potential. Sean Jones has been significantly worse versus last year, and I really don’t see that much regression out of Talib. He lad his low points last year as well.
Oderint dum metuant
Geno Hayes and Quincy Black were much better last year than this year
They’ve played worse. They’ve shown they can play better, but they’re not doing it. The same goes for Josh Freeman and Mike Williams.
Talib had about an eight-game streak after the Lions game in which he just didn’t do anything.
I agree Geno and Black have regressed.
But is Raheem at fault for their regression when he coached those same two players last year? I don’t think so. Players regress all the time regardless of who the coach is.
Oderint dum metuant
Sure
But that regression is pretty universal right now. The only players to improve over last year are Michael Bennett, Preston Parker, Davin Joseph and Donald Penn. Gerald McCoy, too, but he’s on IR now. That’s about it.
Wow Sander. I disagree wholeheartedly.
We obviously haven’t been watching the same teams. We have a good DL and starting corner, other than that every other position on defense is below average. I don’t know how you can argue otherwise.
Oderint dum metuant
The Bucs have enough pieces to field a decent defense
The linebackers can play much better than they have. Biggers isn’t good enough to stop good 3rd receivers, but he’s good enough against teams that don’t have receiver depth (which is most of them).
The Bucs don’t have the pieces to field a shutdown defense, but they do have the pieces to field a decent defense. And if the offense wasn’t so incompetent, that would be good enough to make the playoffs.
You could say that about any team with am awesome offense.
If your offense can put up 30-40 points every game, then it doesn’t matter how bad your defense it. Like the first game of the season with the Saints and Packers. I think there was one stop the whole game. The Saints defense has been pretty bad, yet they are a top contender because of their offense.
Oderint dum metuant
The offense has been much worse than that
And they have enough talent to be significantly better. In fact, they would be, if the Bucs just stopped trying to run zone plays and reverses.
Isn't that the whole point of your post?
I think we see the same issue here: the lack of quality players, specifically on defense. Raheem feels they’re getting better on defense with personnel, but that also suggests they’re not there yet, and the results would certainly agree with that assessment.
Oderint dum metuant
The point of my post is what Morris thinks of the talent he's been given
And I think by and large that talent has underperformed this year. Had every player played like they did last year, there wouldn’t be a problem.
I don't see how I could draw any other conclusion
There just has been too much team-wide regression on this team. Ultimately, he’s responsible.
I agree some players have regressed,
but I think the team wide regression your talking about is just an issue of your evaluation of the amount of talent we have on our team. The tough schedule has shown our team’s true colors regarding our level of talent.
Oderint dum metuant
I can name a plethora of players who have played worse
Josh Freeman, Mike Williams, Kellen Winslow, Aqib Talib, Tanard Jackson, Myron Lewis, Quincy Black, Geno Hayes, Sean Jones.
The players who have played better have been linemen (on both sides), Legarrette Blount and Preston Parker. The linemen have new coaches.
I agree with Free, Black, Hayes, and Jones.
Rah can’t be at fault for Tanard’s regression. Williams has been just fine as of the past 3 games. I disagree that Talib has regressed. And Myron Lewis has been injured too often to really grasp where he actually is at because his injuries could be affecting his play. So 4 out of 22 starters isn’t a team wide regression.
Oderint dum metuant
Williams has played better the past three games
He had 9 nine games of playing much worse before that. That’s a regression. Talib has had two very good games this year, but he also had a lot of games where he wasn’t a factor. And while you probably can’t fault Jackson, safety play overall has been worse this year than it was last year.
We can nit pick back and forth about a player here and there,
but in the end, 4-6 players regressing isn’t a team wide regression.
Oderint dum metuant
Fair enough
Maybe not team-wide, but it’s clear that a significant number of players who were expected to contribute have regressed. Is that coaching? I can’t say definitively, but I would think so.
Actually
he’s right. Plenty of people have stated this team would be much improved and have a chance at being something truly special with a new HC or DC. And not just THIS site but TBO and others. I’m sure not you specifically but there have been plenty of ppl preaching that.
Yeah even before the season the defense looked to be improved
but not great. The Dline is improving, but once the ball passes the line of scrimmage all hell breaks loose. I swear sometimes I wonder if the outside linebackers are running AWAY from ballcarrier…I know corner is a huge need, but if we aren’t in contention for Claiborne or Kirkpatrick we should see if we can drop a few spots and take Zach Brown and pick up a fourth round pick in process. Use the high second round on a corner, the third on LaMicheal James, the fourth on either a CB, S, OL, DL, or OLB. Sorry, I’ve been thinking about this heavily…
by flash_kiley on Dec 5, 2011 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like that plan
but we should be able to get another 2nd if we move back in the first, especially considering how high we’ll be picking.
Yugly.
I agree
I was just throwing a pick out there. If we get a second round we could still double dip at corner and draft a linebacker in the first round. That would be a huge help.
by flash_kiley on Dec 5, 2011 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trade back in the 1st 2 rounds and get 4 picks
2 CB’s and 2 LB’s in best possible order.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 5, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Dominik absolutely gets credit/blame for their putrid performance this year. Their lack of activity in Free Agency is criminal.
Rah made the comment earlier this year that the team as a whole needs to mature. Well that’s kind of hard when they’ve 86’d all their veterans, including Ruud. On the Tennessee telecast last week, they mentioned more than once how much Ruud had done to show his replacement the ropes.
Also, the Bucs need to fire their Defensive Coordinator. It NEVER works when the head coach wears multiple hats, be it Coach/Coordinator or Coach/GM.
Never?
There are many successfull coaches that have coached both HC/OC or HC/DC. However, I doubt many of them have been successfull with lack of talent to corridinate coupled with lack of experience on their part AND the players part. It’s just too much for him to overcome…..and not just him but for any coach that young to coach/corridinate such a young squad. He is the youngest HC in NFL, NHL, NBA. And that’s after 3 years….just too much to ask of him. This definately falls on Dominik.
I havent seen a coach who serves as HC and DC that was succesful.
It easier to be HC and OC. but not on defense.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Huh, that's a good point actually
Bill Belichick does it and has done it, but that’s about it. Wade Phillips, but I don’t know if you can call him successful as a head coach.
Nope same problems plagued him.
Too player friendly. Not enough accountability etc. Now that he is back to coaching defense only he is being lauded as a genius again.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Yea thats about it. and if belichick runs the defense that says alot
being that they have one of the worst defenses in the league as well.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Hmmmm
never thought about the HC/DC being more difficult then HC/OC. You would think it would actually be easier considering the game plan is more simplistic as opposed to most NFL offenses……interesting. I’m in agreement that we should definately hire a DC to help him out…he can call plays all he wants since I haven’t seen anything completely terrible in that regard…but hiring a DC would definately help Raheem and the team.
I would think that DCs have to adjust on the fly much more quickly than OCs do.
Probably hard to commit 100% focus when other aspects of the game demand constant attention too.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
yea its really tough. he needs a dc. he can still oversee the defense but just not call the plays and what not.
too much on his plate
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
what do u guys think about moving to a 3- 4 defence
it seems we have a bowers as a outside LB, price as NT, Claiborne as DE, Mccoy as DE, we just need a shut down CB which i think we should draft Claiborne from LSU and another outside LB.
No
Just, no. If you move to a 3-4 (a real 3-4, not a Wade Phillips 3-4) you can immediately scrap Clayborn, Bennett and probably Bowers too. You can scrap Price and McCoy too: both are one-gap penetrators, not two-gap hold-the-point players. And in a 3-4, you need very talented linebackers, but that’s arguably the biggest problem-area for the Bucs.
You go to a 3-4, you have to rebuild the entire front seven. Again.
Are we running the 3-4 this year?
BC we are ranked 31st,
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 5, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
*Joke, but seriously
I would be down for change to a 3-4, but I think that is my anger speaking.
Our D is so putrid right now, I’d rather see about 7 new faces starting.
We aren’t even playing hard, no excuses.
These guys are professionals, and they are stinking up the place right now.
Remember a few years back when Sports Illustrated ran a story about the University of Miami being able to beat the worst NFL Frannchise in a game?
Well, I feel that the Bucs are the bes College Football team in the NFL right now.
I bet LSU/ Alabama runs the ball right down our throat… Fact!
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Dec 5, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Don't be silly now.
But yea. Switching to the 3-4 would be the worst possible idea.
Switching to a 3-4 would mean rebuilding again
And another 2 years of sucky defense, at least.
But yeah, this defense sucks right now.
it is not like we have a good defense we may as well rebuild
it seems like most of the good defense’s are 3-4?
also didn't houston run 4-3 and switch to a 3-4
and are on of the best defense in the league.
That's a Wade Phillips 3-4 they switched to
The only difference between that defense and a 4-3 is that the defensive end has his hand off the ground.
I'm actually impressed at the cogent debates occurring in all of these threads.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
It looks like losing has unified us rather than dividing us.
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Dec 5, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
Also a reflection of who isn't posting...
Some of the usual suspects are notably absent…
Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?
thanks sander, leecaz and guys . .makde for some good reading . . you two sportswriters?
just wanted to say . . i think blount is going to be one helluva back . . quite a few 100 yard games . . and the ones that weren’t were because he had 5 – 8 touches . . the team has great potential but there aren’t many teams that can afford to pass up top-notch free agents . . except the bucs . . but in their defense, they are trying to make a bunch of kids play with the pros without any training camps or time to really practice together with real coaches . . josh freeman has a lot of qualities, but he is not tampa’s future if they want to win . . josh johnson showed more confidence with his long ball than freeman ever has . . and i actually think rudy carpenter could outplay both of them . . they should be looking to draft another QB option . . thanks
Banned for not mentioning me by name
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Brucie is sad
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
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