Daily Bucs Links 12/2/11 - Freeman still not practicing
by Sander on Dec 2, 2011 5:46 AM EST
in Daily Bucs Links
Email
PrintWorst team in the NFC South? - NFC South Blog - ESPN
Pat Yasinskas makes a good argument that the Bucs are the worst team in the NFC South right now.
JoeBucsFan.com | Freeman Said He Could Have Played Yesterday - Tampa Bay Bucs Football
That sounds good, at least.
Freeman improves but Bucs preparing Johnson to start | tampabay.com & St. Petersburg Times
But this doesn't.
Freeman Improves but Johnson Getting Prepared for Tampa Bay Bucs | Bucs Scene
Ugh.
The Tampa Two-Step | Pewter Report
Chidi Ahanotu wants fans to be patient.
Injuries plague Tampa Bay Bucs defensive line - St. Petersburg Times
As if Freeman's injury wasn't enough.
You can follow us on Twitter as @Bucs_Nation or on Facebook at Facebook.com/BucsNation
If you have a topic you want to talk about, remember that you can write a fanpost.
Derrick Brooks on Leadership and Freeman | Justin Pawlowski - 620 WDAE - The Sports Animal
Freeman wants to be the leader of the franchise, but that takes a lot of effort.
The book on Josh Johnson - NFC South Blog - ESPN
We might see on Sunday.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Tennessee Titans: What they're saying - St. Petersburg Times
Some notes.
Bucs Other Josh – Johnson – Could be Starter Sunday | Pewter Report
Oh no.
NFP Friday Forecast | National Football Post
Previewing every game.
77 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Noooooo
This is the first game I’ve been able to make in YEARS and I’m not going to get to see Freeman? rips hair out
Yugly.
what happens
If Freeman is out and Johnson performs well?
by GoBuxGo on Dec 2, 2011 10:29 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Yea that's what I was thinking
If we come away with a win Sunday and his play makes a positive difference in that win, I say we start him next week. I’m not saying he’ll replace Freeman fully but at this point in this season what would we have to lose? It’ll be nice to see if Josh Johnson can add to the tempo we’ve had on offense
by GoBuxGo on Dec 2, 2011 10:51 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Wouldn't happen.
Best that could happen is JJ becomes trade bait.
No not trade bait
too late for that he is a free agent..what it does do tho is if he does preform well , he will demand and bigger contract in a competition.and say he wins a starting job playing time etc brings a better compensitory pick in the following draft
No controversy
well the prison of the moment fans will say start Johnson but come on people I know Freeman has been playing like shit but he still by far the best qb on the roster. So what if Johnson has 1 good game which would be a 1st but it’s not like Freeman has played badly every game this yr. Lets go back to last yr and ask yourself how many games if any would we win with Johnson.
I see it more like...
what Freeman did LAST year doesn’t eliminate what he’s done THIS year.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
No, but he hasn't been that disastrous this year either
And he’s generally improved as the year went on. There’s very little reason to believe he won’t work through this. You can’t just give up on a QB because he’s having a rough stretch.
A rough stretch, no. A rough SEASON, absolutely.
Look, i love Freeman, but maybe he needs to be benched right now. Let him at least rest this next week and see how he comes back the week after.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
It will at the very least rest his shoulder.
Should we lose, we will also get a better position for the draft.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
Teams don't work like that
And his shoulder hasn’t suffered any structural damage, so that’s not all that relevant either.
I think its fair to wonder which Freeman we really have?
This years or last – or something in between? I can only hope that he is going through some developmental issues that will eventually be worked out.
by Cracker Ball on Dec 3, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
thats bs..its not freeman we have no second reciever
ok this is it u want to know what wrong with our O ..its so simple..teams bracket mike williams and winslow..while putting 8 in the box to bracket the TE we have NO second reciever who can beat man on consistant.. yeas u can say a real# 1 should beat the doubles but common what secont year reciever can or ever has except randy moss..none!! noone..everone talks about Been..its like this..if he was even good he would run roughshot all over man coverages against #2 corners in man coveragers on 2nd down…and our shitty OC who everyone calls him gives him ever chance to do so..its bs..we need the second WR to step up..that the proplem with this team on the O side of the ball…i mean be real..its one on one all day on second down for Been ..he does fine when he gets the ball in his hand..but his routes suck no seperation..get real…its not play calling..he should be eating that crap up…simple as that..its man on every snap..for a year now…we need a 2nd reciever and Been has pisssed this year away..ok im done:)
How long does it buy him?
Next season or the one after that? Hopefully he has it together heading into his contract year, because then we would have a very difficult decision to make.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Agreed
really I think how he bounces back the rest of this season and all of next year will tell exactly what kind of QB Freeman is. I’ll use Matt Cassel to back that…..1 solid year and he was crowned an elite QB. Granted you can argue he had his year with a great Pats Offense where as Freeman had a solid year with a not so good Bucs team….but 1 solid year no matter who you play with is still just 1 solid year. He better right his ship in the offseason.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think if you simply evaluate skillset it's hard not to see Freeman as a good QB going forward
He throws the football very well when his mechanics are good, and he’s shown he can do that at various times this and last season – it’s just a consistency issue. He has a very good feel for pocket pressure. He does a very good job identifying pressure and setting protections before the snap (the Bucs almost never allow unaccounted rushers). If I can believe Greg Cosell, he’s also very good at identifying coverage etc before the snap, but that’s impossible for me to evaluate. He is still completing a higher percentage of his passes than in the previous two years.
There are two problems with his play this year: we saw a return of boneheaded decisions, but he’s improved as the year went on, and he’s been inconsistent in his accuracy – which should not be a hard thing to fix, as he has shown in the past over large periods of time that he can throw the ball consistently accurately.
Mainly he’s just struggling to transition from being a scrambling/improvisational passer to being a pocket passer. Big Ben struggled with that too, and came out of it a much better passer.
Ryan Leaf had a great skill set too.
It’s all in their heads. He has the tools for sure. For whatever reason he just isn’t playing like he did last season. No one has really talked about it, but I think it’s very likely that the success from last year got to his head. Every told him how great he is and he got that chip off his shoulder that made him work so hard heading into his second year.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Freeman has the work ethic to go with it
There’s no evidence that he didn’t work as hard going into the season.
Well, the focus doesn't seem to be there.
He isn’t as confident and is making much worse decisions.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Focus and confidence are vague, poorly-defined concepts that are very hard to judge from the outside
Mostly he just has struggled stepping into throws and reading defenses. Whether that has anything to do with focus or work ethic, who knows? I doubt it.
How do not being able to read defenses and not stepping into throws
not lead back to lack of preparation? Nobody knows why he has stunk it up, but I think that is the most likely reason. I think he worked his ass off heading into last year because he had a lot of pressure on him after all the interceptions in 2009. I think after 2010 he (and Williams) were very overconfident and rested on their laurels a bit heading into this season. Just my opinion and I have idea if it’s true or not, but that’s my perception of the situation.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Maybe defenses figured out new ways to confuse him
Maybe he’s faced tougher opposition.
Maybe he’s taking more risks than last year (which should suggest overconfidence, not less confidence).
Maybe the lack of coaching or organized practice this offseason really hurt him.
The fact that they’re actively trying to stop him from scrambling surely plays into it as well.
You can’t say it’s because he hasn’t worked as hard or because he has less confidence or less focus, because you really can’t know any of those things. It’s all just conjecture based on indirect evidence.
I can say it and I did.
Which is why I said it was my perception of the situation. I’m not psychic and never claimed to be. You’re right about that.
It’s week 13 in his third season. Teams try to confuse quarterbacks all the time. If teams are unilaterally doing something to confuse him he (and the coaching staff) should have had it figured out by now.
He is not taking more risks unless you count throwing bad balls as a “risk”. He isn’t taking shots down field like last year and is checking down way more.
Have a hard time believing that lack of coaching/organized practice hurt him any more than it’s hurting Cam Newton or Andy Dalton, who are doing much better than he is as rookies.
He doesn’t seem to be looking to scramble anyway.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Wow. Just looked at Dalton's numbers.
Keeping in mind that he has an elite receiver to throw to in AJ Green.
Completion % 60.1
TDs 16
Int 12
Yards per attempt: 6.9
Freeman:
%: 61.8
TDs: 12
Int: 16
YPA: 6.6
I was just being a smart ass, but Dalton really is playing better than Freeman. Can’t believe that kid is producing like that.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
dalton has
2 recievers a te and a rb.. freeman has 1 reciever and a te to throw to..big dif..and dalton has a top ranked D..no comparison that like saying jim McMan was the best QB ever on the 85 bears ..or brad johnson was a superstar…get real..its a team game
Who is the other wide receiver that Dalton throws to?
Jerome Simpson? Get real. The defense also has nothing to do with Dalton’s yards per attempt. If anything a good defense holds that stat back, because he isn’t throwing the ball a lot at the end of games trying to catch up.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I don't believe that teams have found out some way to confuse him extra
Though that did really seem to play a role in the San Francisco role, where they seemed to have a great feel for the Bucs offense (and defense for that matter).
And yes, I do think he’s taken more risks this year, and the risks he’s taken haven’t paid off because his receivers are playing worse. He was checking down a lot last year too, and most big plays came outside the structure of the offense off scrambles. Those scrambles happen because he either isn’t willing to make a risky throw, or because he isn’t seeing an open receiver to throw it to. This year he’s making those throws instead. Add to that receivers who aren’t catching tough balls, and that’s a big part of the problem.
San Fran owned us
thats fact..they just played stuck coverage and jumped routes…now everone does it..Ben sucks he cant beat press coverage off the line..i dont know if its his knee or not..but he just cant..untill we have a 2nd reciever who can..we will suck on O
Now that you mention it
I haven’t seen near as many cannon shots from Freeman this year. Everything seems to be lobbed or lofted. He needs to put that rifle to use!!
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ya
idk if his work ethic is in question. Even during the lock out he was setting up meetings and scheduling practices. I would say his in game mentality is in question though.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
That could be due to Olsen's game planning.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
Olsen seems, to me, like the "diabolical evil genius"
that you almost feel sorry for because the good guys don’t even break a sweat thwarting his latest evil plan…hey Greg, the only one you’re outsmarting is yourself.. team rocket is blasting off agaaaaain…(that takes me way back) haha
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 1:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
im still rollin
u said ryan leaf and freeman in the same sentance..man..that should constitute a live time ban for talkin about football
Definately
has shown he has what it takes to be a starting QB in this league. I wasn’t questioning whether or not he has the tools to be a good/elite QB. And you can’t look past some of the great things he’s done as far as comebacks and such. I was more referring to how he handles a bad/off year and how he bounces back from it. Similar to math….. 1 + (-1) = 0. 1 good year, 1 bad year……I’m interested to see where he goes from here…..up or down. It’s actually pretty common for him to struggle this year as most QBs who have solid 1st years have a hard time repeating the following season (I’m not counting his rookie season.) Really I just think how he responds next year will tell which direction his career has turned….and possibly which direction this team will turn.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
and
he still has the rest of this season to put some rest to worry.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Dream Team?
I’m curious what others on here think about Jeff Fisher coming in as head coach and Mike Sherman as offensive coordinator. Their combined experience and succesful track record is light years ahead of our current staff. Just a thought. Any takers?
I would be fine with that
We need someone that will hold the players accountable and give them direction. And the offense, and the defense for that matter, needs an identity.
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
How about Norv Turner as an OC.
He’s likely to be gone in San Diego when the season is over. He’s a horrible HC but still a good play caller and anybody is an upgrade over Olsen. As far as Fisher being here I’m not crazy about it, I still would give Rah another yr with better assistants and yes meaning giving up his play caliing on defense while hiring a real DC.
I would get Marty Shottenheimer over Norv Turner any day of the week!
Turner sucks.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
As a HC yea he sucks.
I’m just talking about as an OC. The 1 yr he was in San Fran was the only time Alex Smith looked like an NFL qb until this yr and he’s responsible for making Troy Aikman a HOF. Even though the Chargers underperform each yr, he has made Phillip Rivers to an elite qb. He can put the final touches on Freeman’s development.
Turner vs Olsen as an OC? No brainer there.
Nice article by Pat Yasinskas.
I read it yesterday, sadly he made some good points about us. It seems like the Panthers are looking better right now but still this would be the low point if we lose Sunday. For sure the Panthers will leap frog us being in last place.
Yaskinkas' criticism of Blount is idiotic.
He talks like Blount is having a horrible season. He isn’t. Blount is averaging 4.7 yards per carry. Not his fault he missed a couple of games to injury. He also gets no carries in the red zone and on third down. He can still easily hit 1,000 yards if he gets an equal amount of carries to what he got last season.
I used to not mind Yasinkas but after that garbage about Blount and the Freeman article on his thumb I’m ready to kick him in the teeth.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
The only reason Blount is off last year's pace is that he isn't getting the carries
Not because he’s less skilled. In fact, he looks like a vastly improved back this year (better pad level, runs with more power, sees holes better, production more consistent).
Yep.
Blount only has 138 carries this year. That is unforgivable.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
With the exception of what Yasinkas said about Blount, everything else in that story is true.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
He seemed to beat up on MW too much too.
Despite the drops and overall slump, he’s still been better than Clayton at anypoint after his rookie yr. If Pat has watched the last couple games MW is showing some flashes of the go to guy from last yr.
NO he is NOT its simple..man..they pass the ball..its 8 man fronts
I MEAN COMMON..teams stack up on us..man…u want a running game on second down or on first when we pass out second reciever should be killing..we have ben a 2nd round pick..he face one on one coverage ever time he runs a route..but he is not open..cant get off the line against press coverage…cant get seperation…but everyone screems…get him on the field more…he does fine once he has the ball…but whats he doing..be real…he should have 900yrds with the coverage he is getting..its bs
I think at the end of this year
We are sign Blount to a long term contract. So even if (God forbid) Olsen is OC next year, he will have a little more push from the front office to prove them smart for signing him.
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 2:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
One of my closest friends is from Charlotte, N.C.
If the Panthers win, I won’t hear the end of it. Let’s go Bucs!
Hope
JJ starts. Mostly because I think he is a better QB (Don’t be mad and tear into me. Just an opinion) but also because I hope he plays to his potential and gets a fair shot somewhere else. (Probably Kansas City) He’s a good kid, very athletic and can be extremely accurate. Just needs to make better decisions under pressure. On top of that, Freeman is obviously going to be our QB going forward no matter what happens with JJ and with the season realisticly at a loss we can rest Freeman and have a chance to use JJ as trade bait for more draft picks. Really see no reason not to play JJ this week.
Kind of hard
to explain why I think that. JJ only had 6 NFL starts for us to form an opinion on and considering he hadn’t started a game at QB since being drafted 2 years prior his play was pretty much what you or I would expect . I don’t think that’s enough time for a QB to develop his type of game. I think JJs upside is higher but unless he goes to another team and is given a legitimate shot to prove that….we might not ever find out. As of right now you can obviously say Freeman is the better QB I can’t really argue against that.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I should've said
I think he CAN be a better QB. Two things he needs to work on is protecting the football in the pocket….and reading defenses.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Lol
I can’t really blame him. He only had 4 starts (idk why I said 6). However that was one thing that Freeman has showed from the begining is that he was much more comfortable against the pressure.
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Those are things that Freeman needs to work on too...
Coaching?
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
would it be fair
To say that J.J. uses his feet more effectively than Freeman does. Being the quicker, more elusive of the two doesn’t necessarily make him the better overall QB, but the pace will be different with him under center. Freeman is without a doubt the franchise but J.J. Has some Willie Beemanish qualities.
by GoBuxGo on Dec 2, 2011 12:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Fair.
for now, but if he ends up starting somewhere else next year……we will get a definate answer on the JJ-Freeman debate. For now I can only say it’s an opinion that JJ has more upside since there are no real facts to back it. lol
by Luckydabney7 on Dec 2, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Thought so...
Unless we sign Johnson at the end of this season we can’t use him for trade bait.
Still waiting for the day that the NFL comes back to LA...
Yeah. We don't have enough sixth round draft picks on the roster right now.
I kid.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
There is a reason why Freeman is not looking over his shoulder despite his poor play.
Rex Ryan had old man Mark Brunell reps in practice to light a fire under Mark Sanchez. If we had a provan veteran or just a guy who can play behind Freeman, I think Rah would do the same thing. It shows that Johnson is nobody special a nice word of saying he sucks.
If JJ starts
Is anyone else expecting the option play at least 3 times. Or better yet, kill two birds with one stone. Send Rejus in motion, fake the dive to Blount, run the option with JJ and Rejus. Option and Rejus end around all in one. Haha
by flash_kiley on Dec 2, 2011 1:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bucs Nation
Related FanShots on Bucs Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
