The SKY is FALLING!!! Or is it?
There has been a lot of "the end is near" mentality going around after the recent loss to the New Orleans Saints. So, I thought I'd take a closer look into this. I wanted to see how warranted it really is.
Now, admittedly, the loss to the Saints puts us in 3rd place in the division and in a very difficult place to make the playoffs. In that sense, the sky could be falling. Having split games with the Saints, and also being 2 games back, it's not gonna be easy to overtake them again and we have no head-to-head tie-break against them anymore. We are both 2-1 in the division. The Falcons are ahead of us, but only by one game and we still have the tie-break edge at this point. A win against them and we'd have the full tie-break advantage against them and another division win.
Next thing to do is look at the schedule. Starting with the Saints, they have to play the Falcons twice and Panthers once. They also have the Lions and Giants to play at home. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination. And with the inconsistency they've played with, there's no telling they'll even beat the Titans or Vikings on the road. The Falcons have the Saints twice, the Panthers on the road and the Bucs in division. They have the Texans to play as well. But add in the Titans, Vikings and Jaguars all at home and their road may be a bit easier. Now, the Bucs have an interesting road ahead. Obviously we have tough meetings with the Packers and Texans ahead. But, between then and the season finale, the road is a bit muddled. We face the Titans, Panthers twice, Jaguars, and Cowboys. None of those teams have shown much consistency and all can be beaten. We finish against the Falcons. It's not too far fetched to see the Saints and/or Falcons stumble once or twice and the Bucs to sneak back into this thing.
Ok, so that's the road ahead, but what about all this "regression" going around on the team? What about firing coaches, or punishing players for stupid things on the field? A lot of that talk going around as well, so I thought I'd look at where we're at and who we have and compare it to other teams around the league. Obviously our record is mediocre, 4-4. The expectations were for Freeman to be a "Franchise QB", Blount to be a Juggernaut, Mike Williams to take over and give advantages to Benn and the others. Our Defense looked to be improving and expectations coming off last year were high.
Those are the keys I've honed in on because they're all important here. So, let's take a look at another team that is 4-4, has a "Franchise" or Elite QB, a young RB taken in the first round, a top WR talent, and had a defense in the top half of the league for the past 3 years. The expectations are high for them to be in the playoffs this year considering their weak division, yet they're in a fight for their life to make the playoffs with a fairly difficult schedule ahead. I'm talking about the San Diego Chargers. With "stud" QB Phillip Rivers, top draft pick Ryan Matthews, and Vincent Jackson... playing in the weak AFC West... having a good defense. How could they be struggling? This is also a team that has mostly chosen the "build through the draft" mentality. They didn't add much in the way of free agents. The coaching staff is pretty much the same other than the loss of DC Ron Rivera to the Panthers. They're a more veteran team and the expectations for them were much higher nationally than for the Bucs. So, were our expectations too high since we're fans of the team? or is it just the "build through the draft" mentality?
Ok, given that, let's look at two teams that chose the free agency route that also had high expectations. Both have "Franchise" QBs, both have top RBs, one has top WRs, and both are known for great defense. Both are also playing tonight on Monday Night Football. The Bears and the Eagles. Cutler and Vick (both non-draft acquisitions), Forte and McCoy, Maclin and Jackson. Both defenses bolstered by top free agents like Julius Peppers, Nnamdi Asomugha, Cullen Jenkins, etc. Yet, if the Eagles happen to win, both teams will be 4-4 just like our Bucs. If the Bears win, that means the "Dream Team" will be 3-5. So, it's not signing top free agents putting teams over the top. It's not Veteran coaching either. You can't get more Veteran coaching that Andy Reid, and Lovie Smith has been around for a while as well. Norv Turner's been in the league for quite some time.
My intent here is not to answer my question, but to pose it. The feeling I'm getting from the fan base is that the sky is, indeed, falling. But we've taken a close look, and teams with even higher expectations (nationally) than our beloved Bucs are in no better situation that we are. Looking at our losses, we've been beaten by the Lions (6-2), the 49ers (7-1), the Bears (4-4 or 5-3) and the Saints (6-3). Those are all pretty good teams this year. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of losing to any of them this year, but plenty to be proud of if we beat teams like that. Well, out of our 4 wins, 2 came against teams like that, with winning records at this point. The Saints and Falcons, with a bonus because those were also division opponents. 6 of our 8 games against teams with pretty good records and we sit at 4-4. And by most fan's accounts, we have not played good football as a team this year. Freeman's been off target. Olsen won't run Blount. Benn isn't even in on passing downs. The defense can't tackle. Our secondary gets torched. The whole team is making stupid penalties before, during and after the play.
You see... we're 4-4 against some pretty good competition and we still haven't played our best football. So, I ask again... Is the sky falling? or not?
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Good points
We are a good team. We just need more discipline
by Sunday Morning Wood on Nov 7, 2011 11:04 PM EST reply actions
Nope... sky IS falling.
We HAVE played our best football THIS season – and it wasn’t all that good.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 7, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
It was good enough to beat the Saints and the Falcons
If that’s what you would say was our “best this season”. In each loss, you can pinpoint mistakes by the players and/or coaches throughout the game. Whether it’s missed tackles (I gotta put that on the players this year, since they wanted to limit padded practices so much they better be able to tackle without the coaching)… or overthrown/off-target passes… or poor play calling. There has been a bit of it all in all of the losses. Some on the players, some on the coaches. But none of which can’t be cleaned up if the “TEAM” chooses to. Yeah, team. Coaches AND players. We’ve seen them play pretty well this year, which leads me to believe they can do it again. Whether they do or not is up to them. My biggest problem with them right now is that they all seem to be a group of individuals, not a team. The stupid personal fouls are selfish fouls. The whining on the sidelines is selfish. It’s hard for me to even find a position group on the team that is playing as a team.
I do believe we have pieces to be a good team...
and I agree with everything you’ve said Bruce. (usually do). 4-4 and our losses have come against good teams, and we play in a strong division. Also, we have beaten BOTH the Saints and Falcons atleast ONCE which we couldn’t do last year. So while everyone feels that we have degressed, I actually feel we are pretty much the same if not (dare I say this without getting hated on) slightly better in some ways. Unlike last yr we HAVE taken the step into proving we CAN beat good teams. Our next step, is beating them consistently. I think we are right where we are supposed to be and what everyone at the begining thought we would be….1 year and 1 more solid draft class away from being a really tough team in the NFC. The sky is not falling…..it’s just covered in gray clouds. lol
I value your positive outlook bruce and you have.good points
But I believe the wheels are coming off this thing. After half a season we dont have an offense nor a defense. In my eyes the dallas game doesnt look top easy and you never know what titan team will show up. Right now we cant overlook anybody, even the “easy” teams.
And the chargers didnt make too many moves in free agency because they are a more complete team, they can afford not to do that we cant. They went toe to toe in a shootout with the packers, can we? Plus the eagles are on the rise and will most likely see postseason play
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 8, 2011 2:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The Eagles on the rise?
Will most likely see the postseason? They’re 3-5, lost to a potential wild card contender (lose the tie break to Bears now), and are several games behind the Giants. I don’t see them making the playoffs this year unless there’s a huge slide by the other teams in their division and a surge by them. But, the same could be said of the Bucs. If the Bucs surge, and the Saints and Falcons falter, we could also be in the playoff hunt. It’s not like there’s a lot of difference at this point except we have the better record.
And the Chargers may be a “more complete team”, but they have the same record that we do. They’ve lost to some pretty good competition in the Patriots and Packers, but the other two were against a mediocre Jets and Chiefs. Who have the Chargers beaten? Anybody? Minnesota, KC, Miami and Denver… not much to brag about. Especially for a “more complete team” with higher expectations nationally for this season.
SD is a traditionally slow-starting team...
but nobody EVER wants to play them in December. They will be right in the thick of things like usual. We, on the other hand, will be most likely watching them play in the post-season just like all the other football fans. Gave GB all they could possibly handle in the loss.
So, it's ok for the Chargers
to start off slow, but put it together to get into the playoffs. They can do that, and all is well.
But the Bucs, who haven’t played up to their potential in a single game this season, can’t turn it around in this last half of the year and pull out a playoff berth? That’s somehow impossible? Only the Chargers can do that?
I’m not saying it’s gonna happen, but the Chargers are proof (over several seasons of slow starts) that it can happen.
Well...
It can happen if you have Phillip Rivers, Antonio Gates, Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd with the ball. Last I checked – we do not.
No, I'm comparing situations.
The Chargers have shown it’s possible to start slow and come back and make the playoffs.
The Bucs have started slow, and instead of thinking this team might be able to get on track, get it straight and make a push for the playoffs… everyone is running around screaming the SKY IS FALLING!!!!
Well, maybe it is, but we won’t really know for another 8 games.
but what your failing to understand is that the chargers can start off slow because they have the talent to put up a five or six game win streak no matter the opponent
they are a good team who just starts out slow, we do not have that leisure, if we start slow then most likely were ending slow
All I've been hearing is
how we’ve been playing poorly. Freeman is off target and making bad decisions. The defense isn’t tackling. Stupid penalties. Etc.
Well, if we haven’t played our best ball, that implies that we have the talent to be better than what we’ve played like so far this season. That implies that we could play better. In a sense, it means that we do have the talent to play better, they just haven’t shown yet that they can pull it off this year.
i agree we can be a lot better
but to say the sky is not falling is a huge lie, if it was just one game id understand your point but its now been 8 weeks of slow starts, 8 weeks of penalties, 8 weeks of unpreparation. if it was week one week two ok but its not its mid season and were still in preseason form
I also know that being hit by a bus will hurt...
and I don’t have to wait for it to happen to be sure of this. We will know in 4 weeks as a 4-8 record will all but seal Raheems fate.
Maybe we could do that
If we played in the AFC West
the jets have been to the last two afc games, if you consider them mediocre i dont know how you can think positive things about our team
right now if we were to play the chargers would we win ? no, and the eagles would probably make us look silly too. The eagles are 3-5 but easily have the talent to win 6 in a row or 7. i think your looking at this thing the wrong way, you keep comparing records as if our team is playing like a 4-4 team, totally not the case.
And you're making huge jumps
assuming the Eagles can win 6 or 7 straight based on perceived talent that hasn’t shown the ability to play as a team yet this year. If they are capable of it, why haven’t they done it? And how do you know that we’d lose to the Chargers? The only teams they’ve been able to beat are horrible. The Dolphins? Broncos? Vikings? Really? They may have come close to better teams, but haven’t beaten any.
I believe the Eagles ARE capable of winning 6 or 7 games in a row...
though I wouldn’t bet on it. Much talent resides on that team – they really just need the lightbulb to come on over their heads. We don’t have anywhere near that kind of talent here – individually or collectively.
And that's what people have been saying about the Bucs
the light bulb needs to go off over their heads. They need to quit the stupid penalties. Freeman needs to make better decisions. ETC.
Sure, they have multiple Pro-Bowlers on the Eagles, so they’ve got history on their side. But this isn’t history, it’s the present, and anything can happen. Who’s to say that the light bulb that lights up isn’t the one over the Bucs and not the Eagles….
I hope that the light buld goes off for the Bucs....
in the first 3 quarters of this year it hasnt gone off at all.
East Coast Fan
In reality Bruce, what have the Bucs shown us to date?
I am not a pessimist but prefer to be an optimist. However, the proof is on the screen every sunday. Our team is not playing to there potential at all. To compare us to the Chargers makes no sense to me. They are a veteran laden team with a veteran coach. They have done this and done that….
I see no similarity between the two at all. I hope that I am wrong. but until I see it on the field I guess I will remain a pessisimist.
East Coast Fan
I think that's exactly it...
it’s contradictory. The team hasn’t shown us to date…. but they “have the potential”. Well, if they have it, why can’t they do the same thing other teams do when they start slow? We’re not talking Pro-Bowl players here, but we are talking potential and not having acheived it yet.
I do agree with you.
This team does have the potential, They have talent. the problem I have, is they havent shown it at all, with the exception of maybe the falcons and first saints games. The injury to McCoy is going to hurt badly. Unfortunately our schedule is pretty tough to finsih out the last 8 games too.
I hope that you are right. We have a big game this weekend, hopefully they come to play and get off to a good start and show consistency. I think that is what most of us are hoping for. Consistency…..
East Coast Fan
They might have the talent
But they haven’t proven they can win 2 games in a row, let alone 6 or 7.
Fire. Greg. Olson. NOW.
Agree that the Eagles are vastly overrated
Churns my guts to see them ranked above the Bucs in so may power rankings when they’ve accomplished so little for all the hype, while every loss we’ve had has been to a playoff contender.
As for the Chargers, Rivers is making Freeman look good by comparison. 2011 AFC West = 2010 NFC West: it’ll come down to who sucks the least.
Fire. Greg. Olson. NOW.
I think that this team has the talent to play better ball, I do.
However, the talent isnt being coached good enough to play better. Did you see the offense give up at the end of the saints game last sunday? I did. That is a bad indication that maybe this team is beginning to give up on the season too.
East Coast Fan
If you think a team or player has "potential"...
but they never show it – did they ever really have it to begin with? Let’s take Quincy Black for example: He has all the numbers you could ever want in speed, size, strength, etc. but just plays poorly. Every once in a while, he will make a splash play and you will say to yourself “There is the potential I was talking about” but then he disappears again for 3 straight games.
He is a talented tease that will probably never amount to much in the NFL.
I think this also represents our present Buccaneers… occasionally you see something, but it has become too few and too far between to be relevant. Need some new blood here.
Fine, but
expectations based upon our own individual perceptions of potential does not mean the sky is falling, it may just mean our expectations of that potential was too high. It may mean that potential is maturing into what it will eventually be, but isn’t there yet. I agree that Quincy Black is ALL potential and no substance. But I was saying that last year and have no idea why he got the contract he did without showing a single thing to substantiate that potential. He is currently the worst rated 4-3 OLB in the NFL according to Pro Football Focus and in my view well deserving of that rank.
Bruce, I honestly think it is/was a combination of both...
high expectations (which you would fully expect to hear in this blog) and marginal talent that overachieved quite a bit last year. I still believe that our DBs are the most to blame, and Dom continues to draft them late, scrounging through the trash to find a diamond, and then Raheem egotistically hangs on to them far too long thinking he can coach them up to become something. Lots of “6 out of 10” players, but no real starters.
It’s too early to know about Anthony Gaitor, but the remainder of them including Elbert Mack, EJ Biggers, Myron Lewis, Corey Lynch, Cody Grimm and a couple of others would probably not even be in the NFL if not for Raheem. Each are too limited and at best a dime players (or maybe nickle CB).
Well, if they would replace them...
like they really need to, we would know that answer. The league only has so much room for special teams players.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I'd agree with you on Mack and maybe Lynch
Though Mack has played well this year. But Biggers, Lewis and Grimm would absolutely be on an NFL roster. You overestimate how deep teams are at positions.
Case and point,
even Sabby caught on with another team and is now starting for the Chiefs. O.O
Smoke 'em Blount!
by chuckyforpres on Nov 9, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I am not familiar with KC...
or their depth, but that sounds SO sad for them.
There is no way to confirm our DB depth because Rah and Dom will only bring in rookie undrafted F/As and cast-offs. If we brought in some actual talented DBs, it would look quite different back there.
If you compare this years roster with last years
The defensive backs are practically the same as last years and last years pass defense wasnt too bad, and that was with no pass rush whatsoever.
East Coast Fan
True, but the difference is...
the quality of our opponents in 2011. No easy last place schedule like in 2010. We are playing some real good teams and being exposed as a mediocre team. That 10-6 record against AA teams was probably the worst thing that could have happened to a youthful team like ours. We began to believe the press clippings and really weren’t very good – just BARELY better that those teams we beat.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
It isn't where we are win wise, or playoff race wise
It is how we’re playing. We needed big comebacks against two terrible teams, Minny and Indy, after playing horrible football for most of the game. That’s half our wins right there. And when we lose, we’ve been getting absolutely crushed for most of the game. The play is sloppy, poorly planned, poorly executed. Penalties are sky high. Discipline is terrible. The defense is horrible. The offensive playcalling is just plain offensive. The team is never prepared.
We have some pieces with a LOT of potential, but the fact is they are being squandered nearly every week. That other teams are also having bad seasons isn’t much of a comfort.
Yugly.
Ah, the cognitive dissonance is killing me!
The article writer makes an excellent argument for not believing that the team is as ugly as it appears right now after losing such a stinker of a game. But, I also agree with aakks and Carlitin1988 in believing the team seems to be imploding on itself. Not only is the team Jeckyl/Hyde but it’s rubbing off the fans. Love em/hate em at the same time.
Huge difference between the teams you listed.
Coaching, play on the field, playcalling, execution etc. The Chargers may just be mediocre, but guess what, maybe we are too. The Bears rely on their weapons, i.e. Forte and Hester, we don’t use our weapons. And the Eagles have no identity which is about where we are.
Is 4-4 acceptable to you? It’s not to me, particularly the way we’ve gotten there. Our schedule was not 4-4 tough, we should be 5-3 at worst. We havent performed, we are getting out coached, out executed, and out hustled. They sky is falling right now because its year 3 of rebuilding and we are going backwards. This is Freeman’s 3rd (2.5th) season). Morris has had the D for 3 years now. Steps should be taken forward, not backwards.
I defended the 3-13 year as part of the process. The 10-6 year was a huge leap but maybe it was an abberration, but year 3 was supposed to be 10 wins and/or the playoffs. Year 3 is when the payoff should be here from our “Build through the draft” mentality. I can’t defend this slide.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
I know a lot of people here don't care for my percieved "negativity"...
but you can’t continue to ignore the 500 lb. gorilla in the room.
We have played some really uninspired football this season, and this all but confirms the feeling I had last season about being careful to not get swept up in the “we’re 10-6” fever. We weren’t that good last year and we are proving it now with essentially the same team. We caught ATL and NO napping this year (which is great – yup, we got a W) but we can’t gauge the quality of our team against that. They were not playing well, for whatever reason, and we played JUST well enough to win.
Try to measure us against teams we are more similar to in overall quality (DET, SF, TEN, SEA, etc) and not the upper level teams (GB, HOU, ATL, NO, DAL, etc). I think Raheem IS in trouble here and really needs to “right this ship” just to keep his job. Time will tell…
by Cracker Ball on Nov 8, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
the bears, now saints
possibly a texan loss and a packer blow out and raheem morris is gonna have to start ironing his interview shirt
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 8, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Coaching change is in order, but probably wont happen.
The coaching is the problem. Experience head coach and OC added to inexperienced roster equals the problems we have now. Would a exoerienced head coach get more out of this team? In my opinion YES……
East Coast Fan
by Bucfan on Nov 8, 2011 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Meant inexperienced head coach....
East Coast Fan
by Bucfan on Nov 8, 2011 11:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Rah and Free are being asked to do too much. They both are young and relatively new to their position.
Give Rah a competent OC and DC and let him coach. He should be fine in that role as HC only.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
The big question is, why?
If you are going to change OC and DC – again – why keep Raheem? They never should have let him be DC, and Olson should never have been promoted, but that’s all done now. And at this point, why take another chance and rotate coordinators again when you have a HC on the hot seat? And he would be if we’re talking about OC/DC changed.
Yugly.
We don't know the financial constraints put on him or the team.
I think he can be a quality head coach, but I don’t think he can do both HC and DC. And OC has been a disaster from day 1.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Raheem has not even proven himself as a DC...
much less the added pressures and responsibilities of being HC. He really has not shown much. Freeman should get the credit for rallying the team in the comeback wins, not Raheem. That magic seems to have run its course however.
I predicted a 7-9 record, but worry it may not even be THAT good. Perhaps the 6-10 number would be more in order. Just don’t feel good about any of this right now.
Which team(s) should we have beaten?
Not saying that we couldn’t have beaten more teams. Of course we had a shot at the 6-2 Lions, but they’ve been pretty good this year. But, assuming we pulled that one out at the end and every other game were the same… we’d be 5-3 and still playing poorly. How is that any better than 4-4 other than the obvious record difference. What I’m saying is that 4-4 isn’t acceptable or unacceptable, it’s the middle of the season with a long way to go. It is possible the team finally pulls together as a team, finds an identity and things can turn around quickly. Especially with the Saints inconsistency and the Falcons not looking like the “world beaters” they appeared to be last year.
Maybe we should have beaten the 7-1 49ers? The team that would be 8-0 if not for a 4th qtr meltdown against the Cowboys that they lost in OT. Then there’s the 5-3 Bears and Saints. We did beat the Saints once, it’s not easy to do that twice in one year. And the Bears aren’t looking so bad either, although it was possible to pull that game out as well if not for all the self-destruction.
So, again, we could have possibly beaten another team or two so far and didn’t due to poor play all around. If that’s the case, then I don’t see why, if they pull it together, they can’t beat the Texans or Packers or Falcons. I’m not saying they will, I’m not saying they won’t. Just that they have the ability to, depending on how they play that day. It will have to be better than what we’ve seen so far this year, but we all know that’s possible to do. We saw them all play better last year.
More "coulda, woulda, shoulda"...
The sad truth is MIN and IND could have easily won their games against us, and we barely squeaked by ATL and NO while they were in their funk. Easily could be at 0-8 and in the “Luck Sweepstakes” so keep digging to find the nuggets of positivity – because we suck.
I'm not saying we coulda, woulda, shoulda won anything we didn't
Buc Wild said our schedule was not 4-4 tough and we should be at least 5-3. I was wondering which game we “shoulda” won in his mind that we didn’t. As far as I’m concerned, a win is a win, a loss is a loss.
So for the “sad truth” that we “coulda” lost to MIN or IND, and we barely beat ATL and NO. Fact is, we beat NO and ATL, it’s in the record now, it’s a win. And, we didn’t lose to MIN or IND. No matter the level of play, the result of those games are in the books… no coulda, woulda, shoulda….
again, your letting our record skew your opinions
it is unnaceptable that we cannot beat a team like Indy at home on a monday night in decisive fashion. we made curtis painter look pretty good, better than he should
There was no film on Painter
We were the first team to face him as a starter. How do you prepare for that? We won the game, no matter how we made him look.
no film on painter are you kidding me ? there wasnt much to prepare for the guys isnt cam newton
he cant run and gun, hes a simple back up quarterback who sucks and we made him look good
Curtis Painter is no secret weapon...
despite how he looked against us. There are scouting reports on him and he was running a very pared down version of their total offense. Yet he smoked us good.
It wasn’t him being great – it was us being bad.
Our DBs were "En Fuego" after that game...
and we were beaten by the very thing I say we need here – a rocket WR.
The Bucs were beaten on about two plays in that game
One featuring a dozen missed tackles/failure to get off blocks on a screen pass, and one in which Talib missed a tackle he should never, ever miss.
So we were basically out-techniqued by a lousy team
but managed to win anyway. Sounds a lot like last years wins.
We shouldve won the Detroit game, the Chicago game was there too.
We also almost lost to a crappy Minny team, same with the Colts, and tried to throw up on ourselves in the Atlanta game. Our schedule says we shouldve been 5-3 or 6-2 with the perceived talent on our team.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
In hindsight, it is possible we could have won those games
with the perceived talent we have. So, the question is… Is our perception of the talent on this team over-stated? Are the players not as good as we (the fans) perceived them to be? Or are they that good, and just haven’t performed to that level yet this year. If it’s the latter, then the sky is not falling, the players just need to step up to their ability level and we’ll be winning games and still have a shot at the playoffs. If the former is true, then it is we (the fans) that also must be blamed for setting our expectations much higher than the talent level is able to achieve at this point.
I had those games pegged as wins before the season started.
Did you honestly think the Lions would kill us? We looked horrible for the first half. If we play a full game, we probably win.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Actually, I always had the Lions game as a probable loss
Though I did have the Chicago game as a win.
Fire. Greg. Olson. NOW.
Which just goes to show
that you can’t always rely on what teams have done in years past, and you can’t rely on perceptions of strength or weakness. Things play out as they do in the NFL each and every year with some sort of surprise. Whether that be a good team that is bad, or a bad team that is good, or a surprise player. You never really know what to expect until the season is over and you can look back and say “Wow”. Then we do it all over again next year.
Did the Lions beat us because they were/are great or because we didn't show up in the first half?
I don’t think they’re in a tier above us. That game was lost due to poor execution and a terrible first half. It was a home game against a terrible road team, no excuses. We’ve given up 1, if not 2 games we should have won.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
The inept playcalling of Greg Olson has to go. I've suppored Rah tooth and nail
but if he doesn’t have the heart to fire his buddy than I will also soon turn on Raheem also. I’ve put my hard earned and very frugally spent money into going to support the team but I really don’t see the point in buying another ticket until we hire a new offensive coordinator.
Besides that Tampa fans have been so disloyal to the team that it doesn’t surprise me that we’re treated as a second or even third rate team. I see it like this… Either get on board and take the ups with the downs of watching a young team grow or get off the wagon completely and support someone else. If we want this team to lay it on the line for us every week how does it help to berate and bash them ridiculously. This half in and half out crap is garbage. No other teams except maybe Jacksonville have such a weak home field advantage.
I expected a good year also but realistically knew how young the team is. 10 wins playing the NFC West made it look like the rebuild was farther along, but give them time to grow as a team. By 2014 the Bucs should be an elite roster, especially with a few more losses this year as that would in turn bring us in more impact players.
Rahiminik building a dynasty! Stephon Gilmore, Dre Kirkpatrick, Cliff Harris, JayRon Hoseley, Alfonzo Dennard, Morris Claiborne, Vontaze Burfict, or Mark Barron.. Are one of you guys the final piece to the puzzle here? Lots of QB's and OL this year, someone has to fall! ATL & NO don't have picks bwahahahaha
I agree somewhat wuth freeman05.
I think the expectations we as fans put on the bucs to be world beaters was probably unrealistic. Sure, they played well last year, albeit against very week competition (for the most part) which resulted in a decent win-loss record.
Are we as good record wise from last year or somewhere in between? Probably the latter!! We will get better, this team has talent, but is obviously a few pieces away still. Will we make the playoffs? Again, probably not, but I believe we will be regulars in the playoffs for many years to come.
The problem I have been harking on and will continue to do so is our coaching. Coaching has been subpar at best. Greg Olson has to go!!! Period!!! He is in over his head and is clueless when calling plays. You have all seen it. I’m not sold on Raheem yet either. Maybe if he gave up the DC responsibilities and concentrated on HC only he would be ok. Dont know. I would give him one more year if he would change his duties.
It has been frustrating, I know…. But renember, player wise, we are heading in the right direction, except with Talib, he sucks and is a liability on and off the field..
Go BUCS!!!!!
East Coast Fan
by Bucfan on Nov 8, 2011 10:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I been trying to say the same thing. We are still in it.
Its alot of teams that have higher expectations, but are underachieving We are 4-4. And we havent played our best football yet. But will we this year? I dont know. But we need to asap. We still can catch the last wild card spot or the division if we stop BS’ing and play like we want to get to the playoffs. Im tired of the dink and dunk offense. At least take some shots down field. Geez louise. I think we will be ok inside on defense but hopefully Okam comes back fast.
Texans fan here.
I am looking forward to our game next week! Obviously I hope Houston wins, but the smarter fans at BRB are not chalking up a W yet. You guys have a tough, young team that, if Freeman is the real deal, is 2 or 3 years from a serious championship run IMO. So that being said, I pose 3 questions this week:
1. What about the Texans do you guys believe is the biggest threat?
2. How good is Freeman?
3. What is the trademark of the Bucs that Houston should watch out for?
Good luck. Heres to no injuries!
CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON
1. definately your runningbacks, were horrible at stopping RB’s wether its the run or catching a pass out the backfield.
2. Pretty good last year, so up and down this year honestly we dont know what well get on any given sunday from him
3. were a comeback team, no lead is secure when we want to play good
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 8, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Texans are tough
1). Your running game. Hands down. The two-headed monster is coming.
2). Hard to say. he is not playing well this year. If he and his weapons dont bring their A game this sunday, it will be a long day for us.
3). We dont really have one. They say we are a power running team, we have yet to see that. Our play calling is a texans advantage. defensively, we dont match up well with you. We struggle stopping the run. Pkus we lost oyr best DL to season ending injury last sunday.
East Coast Fan
by Bucfan on Nov 8, 2011 11:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A part of me knew
Freeman couldn’t keep up the 20-6 td/int but i expected our Defense to be MASSIVELY better; I figured with our new MLB, T-Jax coming back and our bookend DEs. I knew we’d lose more games but….sigh The only thing i can hope is that we can get a great CB in the draft and maybe get a 2/3rd DT cuz McCoy is great but if he’s not on the field, not much we can do….
Again with unrealistic expectations
Which we are all guilty of to one extent or another.
For the defense to have been MASSIVELY better, you were relying on a rookie MLB, a rookie DE (possibly two if you were thinking of Bowers as the other “bookend”) and a guy that hasn’t played in over a year. I think those were unrealistic expectations, which is why the 4-4 record and the team’s play looks even worse than it actually is.
Though to be fair
It’s not Clayborn or Foster or McCoy (unless you count him getting injured) that have been the disappointments on D- it’s the areas where we thought we were set with our veterans: Black, Hayes, Talib- these are the guys that have tanked more than anyone else, Frustrating- the second we shore up a weak spot, the spots we thought were set collapse.
Fire. Greg. Olson. NOW.
Again, perception
That’s yours. Mine was that Black was never a “set” player at the position. I was rather disappointed they didn’t let him go in free agency and let Watson or Hayward step up. Talib is playing far better than I anticipated because I thought he’d be in jail by now, so just being on the field is more than I ever thought. Not that he’s doing any good out there, but it’s more than he would have from prison. And I thought Hayes was doing ok this year and he gets benched. We can’t see everything the coaches see, but I was sure Hayes was out-performing Black. Pro Football Focus must think so too, since Black is the worst 4-3 OLB in the league according to them.
I think we need 2 quality OLB...
to take away their positions. Every great DEF in history had great OLB play – and we do not.
I could live with Hayes if we had foster and a good new drafted LB
but Hayes is probably gone when his contract is up. I agree we probably need 2 new LBs, but we also need 2 new CBs, a RB, a TE, a LG, a RT, and probably a top flight WR if we can get one.
Basically, we need both free agency and a couple more good drafts.
Yugly.
Signing Quincy Black to a long term deal...
was a colossal mistake and feels a lot like that big Michael Clayton deal. Gobs of potential but very little production. That contract might have found us a good replacement for him – we will never know.
Since Dom abhors signing F/As, the window will close for some players here before we could possibly draft enough “hits” to complete your list of needs (of which I totally agree with). Nobody said being a Buc fan was easy or pain-free.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm overstating when I say "set"
I never thought that Black was elite, but he at least appeared to be a decent starter last year.
Fire. Greg. Olson. NOW.
I would assume any player given a huge contract
would be considered a ‘set’ position whether I agreed with that contract or not.
Yugly.
WOW
You honestly just calmed me down. I thank you. Great points.
and we are still so young.
If I could wear a bucs shirt with a noles hat for the rest of my life, by golly I would be the happiest man in the world.
Ok... let me see if I can consolidate this....
There is a lot of contradiction. We talk about what we’ve seen, and we talk about potential. One is the past, one is a possible future. Just because there is one, doesn’t mean there will be the other.
This team has looked bad. There is no doubt. Historically (albeit rather short history), these players have shown they can play better. Freeman was more accurate last year, and made better decisions with the ball. The WRs as a unit dropped passes last year, but not to this extent, so we know they can catch, and they’ve also shown they can get open (just not this year). The defense has flashed an ability to get to the QB this year, and they’ve been able to tackle in some games. So, we know they can. That’s the history of it. It’s also the potential of it… as we’ve seen them play better before. We know the ceiling is higher than where they’ve been lately. That said, we don’t know the future, because we don’t know if they will or won’t play to their potential. If they do, those that are worried about getting hit by buses will sure feel silly. If they don’t, then we’ll all be disappointed this year and looking to see what changes the team makes for next year.
Hey everyone.
There’s a lot of valid points (pro and con) for not giving up on the season that i’m not going to repeat here.
But as i stated to Sander sunday. We need a quaility LB, i never believed that our current set was of elite quality to begin with, and you need at least one to have a superior defense lb. (see bears, ravens, prior Bucs teams.)
I’m very concerned over the lack of discipline however, penalties has been a nightmare, The playcalling on offense. so ineffective, the pass rush…man….
SMH
You are right, alot of us have said the same thing about our line backers.
With the exception of watson and rookie foster, there is really nothing exceptional about them, and I m not saying that foster or watson are. They are just the best two we have.
East Coast Fan
They (Watson and Foster) are still very young
and will likely get better. LBs Quincy Black and Geno Hayes have been in the league a while, and are probably as good as they will ever get – which is inconsistent at best. We need 2 quality OLBs – so draft one and sign one (F/A) and we are there. The DL would now seem to be set and the focus can then turn to our DBs.
Hayes is actually still very young too
Though I think we’ve seen what he is. Which at times has been very good, and at other times not so. Too inconsistent.
Would be smart to keep him as a back-up, but replace him with a quality starter.
He does know the system and plays well sporadically – but another player taking his spot would both improve our defense and simultaneously light a fire under him.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 10, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
i just dont think we can replace them both at the same time without dropping a little
definately replace quincys overpaid underachieving behind and maybe let Geno develop a little more, i agree he still is very young. we need to beef up our defense i been saying it since last year and we got Foster, which was a step in the right direction now this year we need a LB in the first or second round or following the round of the CB. For example if we go CB in the first then LB in the second our vice versa.
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 10, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
They have each been on the bench at some point...
over the last 2 years, and we have survived it. Can’t imagine a legit veteran F/A losing too much ground to either of them. We have some players like Adam Heyward and Dakoda Watson to play in their transition. They platooned at Blacks position in 2010 and didn’t miss a beat.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah they say tanard smokes but what was dom smoking to give black that contract
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 11, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
The big $$ signings of Trueblood and Black...
only reinforce the inexperience of Dom as a GM. Just like with Michael Clayton, we tend to reward mediocrity instead of showing them the door and replacing them with better players. If we collapse in 2011, Dom and Raheem will both be in trouble.
Penny wise and dollar foolish.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 11, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
You are right on Black and Clayton
but Trueblood wasn’t that expensive and his contract is short and Joseph was going to walk if we didn’t sign him. I don’t like Trueblood, but I’m not going to beat Dom up over his contract.
Yugly.
Trueblood wasn't that expensive.
"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"
Seems expensive to me...
considering he gets “beaten like a drum” in pass protection.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 11, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't been that awful
"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"
He is definitely the weak link...
at his RT position. An upgrade is long overdue (and exactly why we made a half-*ssed push to get Doug Free from DAL). Even Dom acknowledges its a problem.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 12, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
I realize that, but still- compared to 2010, he isn't that bad
"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"
Hate to admit it but 4QB is right.
Can we do better than TB, of course. Hopefully since his contract is so short, I think 1 or 2 years max, we go after a quality tackle in the draft. It would be nice to have Penn matched up on the other side with a mauler who can pass block.
East Coast Fan
i get that he hasnt been that bad
but does a player who “hasnt been that bad” deserve 10 million dollars ? and its not that 10 million is a lot but it definately is too much for a player such as trueblood, hes a backup at best and hasnt earned anywhere near that amount
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 13, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions

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