Three years later, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers still can't stop the run
by Sander on Nov 28, 2011 10:02 AM EST
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The beginning of the end of the Jon Gruden era in Tampa came on December 8, 2008. On that day, the Buccaneers allowed the Carolina Panthers to rush for 299 yards on Monday Night Football. The Bucs were 9-3 coming into the game and seemed to be ready to cruise into the playoffs. Four weeks removed from the end of the season, they needed one win to make it - and they lost every one of those games. To make matters worse, they allowed an average of 189 yards rushing per game during that stretch.
There were many other reasons why Jon Gruden was fired, but that late-season collapse was the immediate cause was that four-game stretch of incompetence. But despite many changes along the way, the Bucs still cannot stop a running game. Never was that more obvious than on Sunday, when the Bucs allowed arguably the worst starting running back in the league to gain 190 yards on just 23 attempts.
Even on a day when the pass defense performed pretty well, even scoring a touchdown, the Bucs were once again ripped apart by their Achilles heel called run defense. That despite the fact that the Bucs actually had a number of very good performances against the run earlier in the season. They kept the Atlanta Falcons to 30 rushing yards, the Indianapolis Colts to 62 and the New Orleans Saints to 70. In fact, until they faced the Chicago Bears in London it looked like the Bucs had finally found a way to turn around their run defense, with only Adrian Peterson and Frank Gore gaining more than 100 yards against the Bucs.
But since then, the Bucs have allowed 170 yards per game on the ground. The New Orleans Saints, a team they had limited to 70 yards on the ground in week 6, managed to pound out 195 yards just three weeks later. And when you allow a running back who was averaging 3.2 yards per carry coming into the game to run for 8.3 yards per carry, something's wrong.
And that something has been an issue since Raheem Morris took over. Since 2009 the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been the worst team in the NFL stopping the run. During that time, the Bucs have allowed opponents to gain a league-leading 4.78 yards per carry. No other team even comes close. The Oakland Raiders rank second at 4.69 yards per carry, while the Buffalo Bills have allowed 4.68 yards per carry during that period. The Bucs' mark of allowing 6,175 yards on the ground ranks second in the NFL, behind only the Buffalo Bills' 6,584 total yards.
That kind of incompetence over such a long period is baffling. And all that despite the Bucs making plenty of changes. They drafted four new defensive linemen, added a new starter at middle linebacker and replaced their starting strong safety. When they replaced Sabby Piscitelli and his hilarious lack of football skills, that was supposed to improve the run defense. When the Bucs replaced Ryan Sims and Chris Hovan in the middle, that supposedly would make a big difference. When they replaced Barrett Ruud with a more physical, intimidating middle linebacker in Mason Foster, that was supposed to make a difference.
Yet the Bucs once again allowed a running back who had struggled to produce anything this season to run roughshod over them. This is not a fluke. This is a structural problem with this defense. I don't know what the issue precisely is, but I can identify a few things that break down over and over again: this defense cannot tackle, this defense cannot stay in its gap, and this defense gives up contain much too easily. All three of those issues should be fixed through coaching. In fact, all three of those issues should have been fixed through coaching back in 2009. And yet, these problems persist.
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To be fair, our run defense looked defense looked decent yesterday when Brian Price was in there.
It was when he went out that CJ2K went crazy on us. Brian Price was flying all over the field. I remember him making two tackles in the backfield, if not more. And if GMC could stay healthy, I think our run defense would at least be below average to average and not absolutely horrendous (new category just for our defense) just because of his ability to constantly create disruption in the backfield.
Oderint dum metuant
The LB play has every bit as much todo with the poor run D...
possibly more. The DL rarely lead game stats in tackles – it is always the LBs and S positions. Our crappy DEF play starts and ends with those back 7 positions. The DL has been addressed, and will improve with playing time, in the last 2 drafts and equal attention needs to be given to the LB and DB positions
by Cracker Ball on Nov 28, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
LOL really not these backers..
Our line backers are weak. flat out sorry. I never saw why Black got such a big extension when Derrick Brooks was released there went our linebackers we have a ok youngster i foster nothing more. geno is a joke, black is a joke.
by Benjamin Patterson on Nov 28, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
LineBackers!
We went out and got some linemen. Now we need linebackers. I like our linebackers, but we’ve got to improve that position group. When I think of great Defenses they have a bunch of good linebackers, even if the secondary is a bit week (Steelers, Ravens, Pats have let their linebackers go while drafting corners and safeties all over the place). You look at teams like the eagles that have good pass rushers and good secondaries but they still struggle because the Linebackers suck. You have to start with the Defensive Front 7.
Plus, teams rarely go after linebackers high unless they’re pash rushers! Foster can play along the line, but at minimum we need one high draft pick and one other solid prospect. Or a God Forbid a Free Agent.
by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't believe it is the players at this point
We’ve replaced 5 of our front 8. We’ve spent 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a third round pick doing it. Our run defense is still absolutely atrocious. That’s the bottom line. Horrible tackling and a complete failure in gap discipline. Like you say, coaching. All roads go to Raheem at this point.
Yugly.
When three of your four top picks drafted to help with the run are out or limited, it will have an effect on the run game regardless of scheme.
Good teams draft well, and bad teams don’t. I’m not saying we don’t draft well, but if the players that we draft can’t stay on the field, then it is the same thing as not drafting well (either way the players you drafted aren’t playing). Therefore, we are a bad team. Though, I definitely agree that scheme has a large part to do with our woes. You just can’t blame all of our problems on one specific thing. There are many problems, and they all are contributing to our horrible run defense.
Oderint dum metuant
I can still blame it on our outside LBs.
Also, I think our line play has improved dramatically, despite key injuries.
jBen05
is right. We have replaced a lot of the front 8 but Price and McCoy were BOTH put on IR last year. That doesn’t even count as a full season of learning, then of course McCoy was put on IR AGAIN this year (he might as well still be a rookie with no offseason after his first year). Price has been in and out with injuries and we have 2 rookie DEs and a rookie MLB who didn’t even get an offseason. It’s frustrating to say the least….but I don’t think Rah can be blamed for that. His scheme hasn’t really had a chance to be considered to blame in my opinion.
I really noticed Clayborne losing contain on the run plays and being too aggresive on the back end. Some of those cutbacks would’ve been stopped if he retains his aggresiveness on those runs. That can be coached. Whether it WILL be coached….Idk. I hope it does. Crowder did pretty good when he was put in, and I would assume that has much to do with EXP and Coaching since he wasn’t that consistent in recent years.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
At the same time we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Expecting three rookies and two second year players to gel together and become a formidable unit is a lofty goal, regardless of where they were drafted. Especially when you consider the lack of an offseason. If they don’t improve individually and as a unit next year, then we can rightfully come down on them.
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 11:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No one is expecting the Bucs run D to be formidable
But something other than worst in the NFL over a three-year span should be expected.
Exactly.
The fact that this is still an issue is ridiculous.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
We obviously have an issue with zone blocking teams.
Houston and Tennessee lit us up, while we did very well against Atlanta.
Oderint dum metuant
You'd have a point if we were expecting Formidable
I’m just hoping for barely adequate and not seeing it.
Yugly.
In my opinion the only real game to hang our hat on is the Atlanta game
At least in run defense. We held Turner well below his average of 88 yards per game. I’d have to go look it up, but I’d be willing to bet that those numbers for New Orleans and Indy are about in line with their respective averages. Of course, I guess if we’re only giving up their average we can call that a win with this defense.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
To be fair
how many games have we seen McCoy and Price together? I think them not being healthy at the same time has helped either giving they were suppose to be the main guys for this project.
To be fair
Lots of other teams have much less invested in their defensive lines and yet we are the worst in the NFL. At some point it has to put on Morris’ shoulders. There is a fundamental problem with this defense.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Draft Inquiry
Say the Bucs slide out 0-for the rest of the season, would you rather:
A) Draft the best player available at the time of our pick
B) Draft the best LB/CB available
C) Trade back to a QB hungry team
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 28, 2011 11:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Probably B
but I can see scenarios where A (Blackmon) and C (lots of picks) are pretty tempting.
Yugly.
My default is A
Though I’d amend that by making it best non-DL/non-QB available. I like C too, depending on the haul.
One thing I really don’t like is drafting for need at the expense of talent, so unless it’s close I’d rather have, say, a top-rated WR than the best (but second-tier) CB.
True, I'd go with "C"
Especially this year beacause; both the Saints and Falcons traded away their first rounders.
We need a lot of help at a lot of positions.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Richardson
We dont want to get too pass happy and thats the problem. We need another running back. We have k2 and we drafter Stocker. and we have Benn Williams on the outside. But yet one great running back and we are a team supposedly built on running the ball and then play action. But yet we dont run the ball enough. and when we do our qb is inaccurate. We need as much help on offense as possible. Our defense isnt that good but it can get better. Even if it was a defense that was great we still cant score. Look at the Ravens and Jets. They have great defenses but often have lots of trouble scoring on offense. But yet they have lots of weapons at wr and they get pass happy and they dont score alot of points consistently. Thats why we need another rb to either help run the ball or make it easy for freeman to check it down to him and get him in open space and make it work. The Texans invested in a high round rb and they had Foster. Why can we do the same?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
2nd round isn't really that high for an RB
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
+ It's about 20 carries for Blunt and 10 or so for Richardson in Olson's offense (assuming he is here).
That’s wishful thinking
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
I wouldnt mind that at all.
I would rather have Richardson catch the ball too instead of Lumpkin.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Why waste a 1st round pick on a guy that will play 10-15 plays when you can get a defensive player or o-lineman that will play more?
Oderint dum metuant
i dont see it as a waste if out of those 10-15 plays he makes an strong impact.
and the playcalling could be influenced more on the run or utilizing our running backs more if we have that extra weapon out the backfield. i definetly would want to draft an o lineman first round this year. and cb i would say yes only if richardson isnt available.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Richardson wouldn't fill a need, he would be a luxury.
Some teams draft a player at a position they don’t need that player at, like the Lions with Fairley. I just don’t see the Bucs doing that when we have so many holes.
Oderint dum metuant
yea and the Lions have so many holes as well still.
they could have drafted somebody else but they went for him. i didnt see a problem with it at all. im just saying if they best player is richardson and he is available why pass on him? we can use all the help we can get if he is there.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
if hes not available then we go get the best cb we can get.
idk of and real clear cut talent at rb that would be worth grabbing in the first over a cb.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
idk who i would take over him if he is still available
if hes available i want him. if hes not than we get the best player on defense we can get
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
This, this this
Drafting a first-round running back is a waste of a draft pick. You can find complementary runners much, much later in the draft.
Plenty of teams do it all the time.
You take the best player available. Patriots draft mallett in the third round. They had plenty of holes on defense and still do. Lions with fairley, Saints with ingram, panthers with newton….. list goes on. Just because you have a need doesnt mean you cant get the best player available. who says we wont address it in fa? or trade? and it seems like its alot of options at cb with no clear cut decision on how we are even drafting at the position
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Panthers had a hole at QB
Saints didn’t use their only high 1st round draft pick on Ingram (they picked twice in the 1st round). And look how that draft strategy worked for the Lions. Fairley has made little impact, while having a RB like Ingram would have made all the difference.
Oderint dum metuant
In fairness the panthers had a hole everywhere besides qb.
but newtons talent was so great they couldnt pass him up. if newton wasnt in that draft they wouldnt have picked a qb. ingram still was a first rounder. they could have drafted a cb or linebacker. and fairely has been injured but the point im trying to make is teams have needs but sometimes its trumped over the available talent
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Drafting a backup QB in the third round is not the same as drafting a backup running back high in the first round
And which team picking a first-round running back already had a clear #1 back and then had success drafting that second running back? The Panthers did, but to call that team successful…no.
Stop making so much sense! :) haha
Let’s just go get RG3, and trade Freeman for a mid to late first round pick and get a corner. Yeah I said it!
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 2:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They were successful enough to make the playoffs and have a dangerous running game.
But they had far more concerns on that team.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Yes, and if they had used that draft pick on a player that could have helped the team in another place
Then they may not have been looking at two consecutive top 5 draft picks.
True but then they may not have been as succesful without two running backs either.
so its really no difference
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
How so?
Brady aint going anywhere for another 4-5 years. so its a wasted pick when they coulda used that pick for something more important. and the bills drafted cj spiller when they had jackson and marshawn lynch
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
So you think the Bills are a successful franchise, do you?
And you think that CJ Spiller pick has been successful? Because neither of those things are true.
As for the Patriots, they drafted Mallett in the hope that they could either develop him into their starter or flip for a high draft pick a la Matt Cassel. I don’t really like that in the third round either, though.
Success is not determined on how well you did in the draft.
its about wins and losses. so no i never said the bills where a sucessful franchise. what i said was that they had a clear number 1 rb and still drafted a 1st round rb. i cant say that spill was a successful pick being as he hasnt really gotten on the field… but since jackson is gone for the season i think they are happy to have him in the backfield instead of a lower round or undrafted rb.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Yes, you named the Bills as an example
And then if you look at that example, you see that the Bills evidently made a poor choice. Instead of him, they could have had, say, Jason Pierre-Paul, Earl Thomas, Mike Iupati, Maurkice Pouncey, Sean Weatherspoon etc etc
All of those players would have helped the Bills a lot more than Spiller has.
no different that the giants drafting pierre paul
when they have tuck and osi
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
but why waste a pick on a rusher when you have two excellent rushers already and you have holes in your secondary and lbs?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Because the Giants saw a potential star
But because they did that, the Giants are now suffering with holes at cornerback, linebacker and offensive line. Funny how that works.
You keep bringing up examples of teams drafting a player for a position they don’t need, and in all those examples those teams suffered because they had holes at other positions. And the conclusion you draw from that is that it’s a good idea to do so?
Honestly, the Giants are ravaged by injuries. Their med staff sucks
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
but the giants are still better off than we are.
and so are alot of teams that pulled the trigger on some talent that they necessarily didnt “need”.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Could just be a bargaining chip
in contracts for the veteran players at the position. If they can get the same production or almost equal production out of a young player than it drives down the salary demands out of the other players. If they want to walk instead of being reasonable then you already have a contingency plan in place.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
and since we are talking about sucessful franchises
the patriots are and they chose that qb in the third because his talent was too much to pass up. and who knows when he will even see the field. at least a rb can get on the field immediately and help this sorry offense.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
The one thing this 'sorry offense' can actually do is run the football
So you want to fix it by drafting someone to run the football?
i know that but if we have two good running backs dont you think that will change some of our playcalling?
maybe more screens more passes out the backfield?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
What, you want both of them on the field at the same time or something?
That doesn’t happen, and having two RBs is not going to do anything with playcalling, it’ll just cause the coordinator to rotate the two.
not they dont have to be on the field at the same time but it is a great rotation.
blount pounds and pounds alot and thats great i love him for it. but some of those holes that are made…. if we had that speed back to come in hes breaking it to the house. once again if RICHARDSON is available in the first i want him. if he isnt the we just get another rb in the later rounds. i dont know of any other rbs that have that talent that would be drafted in the first round thats all im saying.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Ah, so you're just in love with Trent Richardson
Good for you. But logically, it makes very little sense to draft him.
im in love with the best possible player in the draft that will help this team win.
seems to me that he would be the best fit for the style of play we run on offense.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Getting a good player at another position will help the team win more games than a backup RB
RB is arguably the second least valuable position on offense (behind FB).
I think what he is trying to say is we should be more like the texans
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
excatly.
and not put so much on freeman since he cant get it done right now. if hes going to check down i want him to check it down to a rb that can make people miss in the open field
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
yea and thats the cheap route that the bucs continue to keep doing that frustrates us as fans.
i want them to stop trying to find diamonds in the rough in the trashcans. we cant afford to do that. some franchises can afford to pick up a guy in the 5th that could possibly pan out. we cant. we need the best players on the field immediately. i dont want to put a 5th round rookie in at rb and have him be another lumpkin. id feel a little better that the bucs did pull the trigger on a talent like ricahrdson and even if he didnt work out then hey at least they did make a strong attempt at it. but why pass on him?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
So you prefer not to use a fifth-round pick then?
This has absolutely nothing to do with being ‘cheap’. Drafting a running back in the first round means you are neglecting to use that draft pick to fill another need on the team. So then the Bucs will be forced to have their starting CB be a fifth-rounder, for example.
i would notprefer to use a fifth round pick on a rb
if richardson is available in the first round. if he isnt available then i dont care what round the bucs draft a rb in.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
You pass on someone like Richardson because talent at other positions helps your team *more*
Backup running back is the least of this team’s problems, and it is the easiest to solve.
and we have lots of talent across the board on this team
but we need some ELITE talent on offense. then god forbid blount gets hurt next year then what? everybody will be crying about how he have no depth and we need to draft a rb in 2013.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We do have ELITE talent on offense, fact is- they just suck at it.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
The Bucs could use some more talent on offense
Specifically, at wide receiver or tight end. Running back is the least of their problems.
And you can play the “what if he get hurts game” at every position.
Disagree that running back depth isn't a problem
Graham might not make it back. Lumpkin is useless. We need a more competent third down back and a reliable back up.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I understand
but I disagree that WR is more of a concern than RB. I want to know why Rejus isn’t getting on the field more. His routes aren’t crisp? He doesn’t know the playbook? Something has to be going on there we don’t know about, because he is electric when given opportunities. Mike Williams is looking more like a good #2 than a true #1. Either way, if one of them goes down, we aren’t screwed like we would be if Blount went down.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Benn has been getting on the field a lot more the past games
He isn’t doing much with that playing time, though.
And while depth is not really an issue at wide receiver, the Bucs don’t have someone at receiver who can help Freeman. If the pass isn’t perfect, it just doesn’t get caught, and receivers do struggle to get open. In addition, while Benn has speed, teams don’t seem awfully afraid.
It would be silly to be scared of a guy with speed on this offense
considering 95% of our passes are thrown less than ten yards. I agree an elite WR is needed, but the way Freeman is struggling and Olson is calling games so conservatively I’m not sure it would make a huge difference.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Part of the problem is that receivers struggle to get open
And when Freeman throws to them, they aren’t bailing him out. Having someone like A.J. Green could really help the passing game.
At the same time, it’s hardly the Bucs biggest need and I see CB, LB or S as much more pressing needs.
The WR's we got are good enough,
it’s a breakdown of coaching or something else, drafting a WR is a waste as far as I’m concerned
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Run the ball a lot more and you won't have to throw into coverage!
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
At times, you just need a receiver who can make a play in coverage
The Bucs don’t have that, and it hurts.
did they not make those catches in 2010?
I still think it’s coaching
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Williams made a lot of those catches in 2010
He’s made about one of those in 2011 and failed to make a lot more.
Wasn't it just last week Benn caught a long bomb down the sideline?
If memory serves it was a great leap and catch over the defender.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Good catch
He was open, though. But I’ll believe Benn can do that consistently when I see it. Which I don’t now.
I don't see Benn playing badly though. I just see him getting limited balls thrown his way.
If he isn’t getting open that’s one thing. If he isn’t getting looks because of Freeman’s affinity for Winslow and Williams that’s another. He seems to make the most of the balls getting thrown his way.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
when freeman threw them the ball correctly. not too high or behind him
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
On good balls in coverage, no one makes a play
On bad balls not in coverage, no one makes a play. The only times the receivers are catching passes this year is when the ball is pinpoint perfect. That’s a problem, because you’re not going to get pinpoint balls every time no matter how good your QB is.
riddle me this why do we not throw the ball deep more?
seems to me everytime its happened its bee a big play?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
so we drafted a 2 round and 4th round wr
and a 4th round te now we should draft another te or wr again this year? but hope to get lucky at rb in the 5th or later? wooooooooooooowwwwwwww
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
and how hard is it to understand that we can have two stars in the backfield.
just like we can have 3 star recievers or 2 star tight ends of 3 star cbs. it doesnt matter.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
^^this^^
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, it does
Because the Bucs do not have three star receivers, nor two star tight ends, nor 3 star CBs. And at all those positions, the backups play a lot more snaps than at RB.
So the Bucs would be a lot better served with a star CB than a star RB at this point.
We did draft one in the 5th round and it didn't work out.
We are really lacking another runner at this point, but drafting another back in the 1st round with all the issues we have doesn’t make sense to me.
by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 28, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
*6th round
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Depth!
Blount missed time this year, and it would be outstanding to employ a 50/50 Nlount Richardson combo.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 28, 2011 6:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let's get a run oriented OC in here.
And get 40 carries between the two backs.
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I feel you
However i dont want Lumpkin in the equation. if we can get the best possible player on rb why not go for it?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
PR-wise it wouldn't seem right
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
i dont think the front office cares about pr wise.
it woulda been pr wise to get someone in free agency but you know how that went.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Roster and locker room wise too.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
i dont think that would be an issue that would cause an issue.
if anything it would excite more that cause a ruckus.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
I understand what you are saying.
I’m just saying whoever we get needs to be a gamechanger. Someone that can make an impact on any given play. Right now the only people I see with that ability are Clayborn, Talib, and Blount. I know we may need a CB badly, but if Claiborne and Kirkpatrick are gone and Richardson is the BPA, we should give him a look.
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 1:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That is what i am saying.
However i would flip it. Just me. Id go Richardson first and if not. then go with the CBs.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
If both Claiborne and Kirpatrick are gone
Brown, Blackmon, or Kalil might be available.
I’m not as down on a Richardson pick as some others here, but it is looking like we’re going to be picking high enough that there will be a better player at a more appropriate position sitting there than him.
Yugly.
Yes
I like Richardson, I really do. I just don’t see how picking a running back high in the first round is going to make a big difference for this team. Especially so when what the Bucs really need is a third-down back, and Richardson isn’t that.
So he cant be used as a third down back?
Or a spell back? Ben Tate can start on alot of other teams but the texans still have him and are using him on the team effectively.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
And who knows what his talent may be.
Maybe he is just suited for just being a back up or a 3rd down back who knows. there are tons of 1st round talents who are just back ups in the league and his talents being waste that really doesnt matter. what matters is that he can help the team whether it be carrying sometimes or catching out the backfield. it doesnt matter. we could waste lamichael james talent as well by just using him for a 3rd down back too…. that doesnt matter and that point you jut brought up is really really ridiculous
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
well thats just how the draft works.
sometimes people go higher that they should be and some dont even get drafted at all that should have been. im saying there is not type of way to say how he is going to be. but we can use him utilize him as a weapon.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
i think your just stuck on the title of back up.
alot of teams draft first rounders and they dont start. so its not setting up for failure
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Every team drafts a first-rounder to be a starter within two years
That’s because first-round draft picks are hard to come by and the best way to gather good talent. And good talent starts.
or maybe we could actually stop drafting first round players and expect them to start immediatley
then maybe we wouldnt have so many first rounders that we would be calling busts…
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Plenty good first-rounders don't start immediately
But if they don’t start within two years, they are busts. Because most first-rounders do start and play well within two years. That’s why they’re drafted in the first round. It’s why teams value first-round picks so highly.
That's mainly QB's who need time to learn, RB's are just plug in and leave em
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
i agree
but the fact is that yall dont want to have a rb with potential starter talent being our backup. which is just crazy either way we can still use that player alot doesnt matter what round he was drafted in.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
You don't understand what we're saying
We’re saying that we’d rather have a good starter at cornerback, linebacker or another position than a good backup at running back.
i understand totally.
what im am saying is that i would rather have a impact rb to come in immediately and help our offense, than to wait for a cb or lb to develop into a star and help out this defense. its time to put some boost in. not just adding on additional accessories and hoping it works out
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
I have an idea, let's ask the Glazers to spend money in FA.
No wait, never mind
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
rbs can provide immediate results on the field faster than cbs or lbs
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Certainly not LBs
Arguably CBs. But I’ll take long-term development of the team over one year of production as a backup.
exactly
how much better would we be with a reggie bush instead of lumkin
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
no but could have got him in FA
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
then we wouldnt need to waste a draft pick
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
And the Bucs could go get a decent RB in free agency this offseason too. As I’ve said all along, I think the Bucs do need to go out and get a capable backup at RB. I just don’t think spending a first-round pick on that is wise.
again i said 2nd or 3rd not 1st
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm all for it
just dont think he’ll be there
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
in fact i'd take him in the 2nd if i had to
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think he will be there early in the 3rd
I wouldn’t want to use our second rounder on him because it will be too low. We can pick up a nice first round talent that slipped with it.
Yugly.
A trade for a Ryan Torain-type RB
could be a possibility, as he is not getting the ball, and would certainly be an improvement over anyone we currently have not named Blount.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 29, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt mind him too
However they are saying he inst durable enough. he just got hurt and there are others projected over him that would go third round.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
If an RB runs behind Blunt, they don't really have to worry about durability.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Well not true
he could get hurt by blocking or anything. they say hes pretty small. im not saying we need a big back and injuries happen all the time but they are saying that james is a little injury prone.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We traded for Winslow, and drafted Bowers.
They Bucs are confident in their medical team, and don’t seem too concerned about injuries.
Oderint dum metuant
Well if they draft him then i wouldnt be worried at all because i trust their judgement
im just going of the pre draft info.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Ehhhh
He had an elbow injury. I think it was a sprain. He retweaked it. That’s it. I’m not worried about his durability, especially if he’s running behind Blount. He’d make a great compliment to Blount.
Yugly.
Maybe ball security
but I really don’t see any injury issues I’d worry about with James. If he’s still there in the 3rd I hope we take him.
Yugly.
I wouldn't draft
a RB high. Not with Blount. All we need is a 3rd downback/back up. There are so many RBS capable of filling in that role so we can focus a 3rd round/or higher draft pick on something of absolute neccessity. Arian Foster wasn’t even drafted and he’s arguebly one of the best backs in the NFL.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Now we just have to convince dcbucsfan. It seems as though it will take a while to do so.
Oderint dum metuant
we are not going to be able to utilize our strength on offense with just one running back.
cant do it. and i dont see why if richardson is available we dont get him. i really dont. what is the most glaring need on this team? its that we cannot score any points. we have killed ourselves on offense. and whats the stamp of the offense? running the ball. well guess what? we are 29th in the league in rushing. we need another playmaker on offense. and why not running back? im simply saying if richardson is available you have to take him. dont trade up for him and dont take a cb that we really arent secure in drafting in the first if the ones u target arent available just because we want to get a cb.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Defense is our biggest problem, and it has been. Running the ball is one of our strengths.
We need to fix our weak links (defense), not strengthen one of our strengths.
Oderint dum metuant
right now it's a pass happy league
and most defenses are built to stop the pass, I think that may be y teams like the texans are having success, I could totally see more teams picking up on this and switching to run heavy offenses to take advantage
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree
teams are built to bring pressure and get to the qb.
steelers cb suck, ravens cbs are pedestrian, texans have jj but there front lines are the strength of the defenses. not these shutdown cbs. now look at the jets defense right now… the eagles defense… great cbs but they cant get pressure and there defenses suck right now. which i fear is what is going to happen to the bucs next year.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Sure
But the Bucs already have a good running game and running back. They don’t need to improve it with another running back.
i still think adding richardson will improve our offense greatly.
and thats what we need.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
I disagree you yourself running is one the things we do best, therefore we need to run more not less.
We only have one good running back, can’t use him all the time, so to run more we need some more good backs, not garbage like lumkin.
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Blount can easily handle a higher workload than he's been given now
And while a backup/change of pace back would be nice, to spend a first-rounder on that is insanity.
I'm not saying first round but we need somebody better than lumpkin
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
And finding a guy like blount on a practice squad
is the exception not the rule
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but you don't need to find a guy like Blount
You just need to find someone competent. That’s very easy at the running back position.
Why?
Why not three good running backs,instead of one godd and two average? Remember the giants earth,wind, and fire backfield a few years ago? Wasn’t that what they promised us in 2009 when the clown took over?
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
What, Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw and Derrick Ward?
A fourth-rounder and two seventh-rounders?
That’s my point. You can find those guys later in drafts.
wasnt he drafted in the 6th round?
so i guess we can move up one round this year. lol
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We're awful at creating a scheme for running backs
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
but our best offensive player is a running back so what does that say?
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Blunt has to cutback a lot, a lot of his yards are after contact
Not because the OL is doing something worthwhile scheme wise
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
The offensive line is great at running Power O and Iso Leads
Yet for some reason the coaching staff looooooves zone schemes that the line can’t run, at all.
I still say we need some quality backs from the 2nd or 3rd round, not hopefuls from the 7th, you can't find a blount on a practice squad every year
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
thats what im saying!!
and once again im pretty sure we probably will get high enough pick to get richardson. if hes not available then we can just get another rb later.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Richardson could just as easily slip into the 20's, ala Mark Ingram.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
i disagree.
and truth be told the pass defense is really not the issue. we arent stopping the run and getting to the qb still thats the issue. and i dont see how a cb cures that. but i understand that talib may be going to jail and barber retiring may call for drafting the right cb if available in the first round
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We haven't really faced anyone worthy in the passing game
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Hasselbeck and Schaub/Leinart aren't really all stars
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Thus, why we need Corners
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Coverage sacks?
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
coverage sacks rarely happen
if no one is open they usually throw it away or run it. sacks more or less happen before the qb is ready to get rid of the ball.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We don't have coverage at all this year
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Coverage sacks happen a ton, actually
In fact, to an extent almost every sack is a coverage sack. If coverage can’t hold up for just a little, you can’t get sacks.
That's what I was trying to imply.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
i understood what you were saying though. however im saying that drafting a cb thats probably not going to happen next year.
maybe 2-3 years down the road when the defense gels probably. but now we still have no real improvement on defense next year.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Biggers, Lewis, Mack/Gaitor are our 4 CB's going into next year.
You’re okay with that? I wish I shared your optimism
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
im pretty sure that cb will be addressed in the draft at least in the 2nd round if we were to get richardson
and lets say for instance we draft the best cb in the draft. and he struggles the first year then we still have a bad defense for another year. or even if he is a stud we still will struggle on defense. and we aint getting two first round cbs. so even if we go back to back cbs we still gambling on that second rounder whoever he may be
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
and you can gamble on that
we can get great quality cbs in the 2nd or 3rd too….im saying get the best possible player on the team.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
And if the Bucs don't add quality at cornerback, they'll struggle for at least two more years
At some point you’re going to have address it.
Every argument you make is focused on just next year. The franchise is going to exist longer than that.
And you're always gambling on every player
You pretend as if RBs are some kind of sure thing in the first round. They’re not.
its more sure than getting a first round cb that we dont even know who we are going to pick
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
thats so not true. just because a defender in next to a reciever doesnt make it a coverage sack
a true coverage sack means that after a certain period of time (maybe 4 seconds) a receiver cant get open and that qb gets sacked because of it. rarely if ever does a qb get sacked and somebody is wide open.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Where exactly are you contradicting me, there?
Maybe you’re not clear on what “to an extent” means?
I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago, but all the Bucs’ sacks have been very quick sacks. That’s because coverage can’t hold up for more than 3 seconds and they’re letting QBs get out of the pocket.
^THIS^
You know it. Why bot fire Olsen, get a run first OC, and pair Richardson with Blount. The. Our D would be better bc they would rest more with Blount and Richardson eating clock and yards.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 28, 2011 6:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
because everybody thinks running the ball is boring
you know what I think is boring LOSING all the time. I’m all for running the ball more
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
so riddle me this.
if you were the gm who would you draft round 1-4? and lets say we have the first pick.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We aren't going to have the first pick but
I’ll play for about where I think we’re picking.
1. Claiborne or Kirpatrick if Claiborne’s gone
2. Trent Lewis, but we might be able to snag a great BPA here that falls
3. LaMichael James
4. We don’t have a fourth.
And I’d load up as many holes as I can fill in free agency. Best CB and best LB we can get being the priorities.
That leaves us needing upgrades at S, LG, RT, maybe TE, maybe WR. Can’t fix everything in one year, but I’d take any interesting opportunities at those positions.
Yugly.
interesting.
i have read some mock drafts and one in particular have us getting lamar miller in the second but i dont watch miami footbal games so i dont kno much about him. im for sure sold on ricahrdson. and i do like james too but they have alot of rbs above him too
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Lamar Miller is an absolute beast
Looks and runs like Trent with a little less power, but a little more speed.
by flash_kiley on Nov 29, 2011 10:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Our D will be very well rested
because every opposing QB will throw a TD pass every time when we have to play Myron Lewis.
Yugly.
Sure, look at Blount
Plenty of undrafted or high round picks work out. That doesn’t mean you can target one though since nobody knows WHICH ones will work (or they’d go higher).
I think we need some speed and another playmaker bad enough to justify James in the third round, especially if we’ve gone CB/LB in the first 2 rounds.
Yugly.
I think
someone like Jonathin Franklin from UCLA in later rounds. We don’t need a home run hitter. Just someone who can produce on 3rd down unlike Lumpkin and we could use our 3rd rounder on a safety who can step in and start over Jones. Or a WR who get some separation. Or a LB (if we havne’t addressed it at that point……like Foster last year) that can either start for Black or split time with him and work himself in. I think it would be more beneficial to the growth of the team to use our top 3-4 picks on other areas than RB when all we really need is a back up/3rd down back. Blount produced in the passing game with 56 yards yesterday and has proven before (preseason) that he can be an every down back. Just needs the opportunity to be involved.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
I’d rather use a 3rd round draft pick on a new OC than a rb. We just need help in other areas more than we do on rb to be using that high of a pick for someone will rarely see the field anyway.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
If we can snag a game changer in the 3rd I'd do it
We’re lacking in speed and home run threat, and I think James can be that guy. I understand your arguments, and I understand how many holes we have on defense, but I still think we’d be MUCH better with a guy like James always threatening.
I think we can make some FA pickups, along with our 1st and 2nd round picks, and really improve the talent on defense.
Yugly.
only way we need to draft a running back is if we get rid of olson
otherwise he’ll be sitting on the bench
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
We are/were at that mid point were we need that one player to just put us over the hump.
i believe we can get that on offense with richardson. if he aint available then we get a cb or lb and take our chances with a rb in another round.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
Undrafted- no, 2nd and 3rd round-yes.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Want proof- 8 of the top 10 leading rushers this year are 2nd round or later
Fred Jackson went undrafted and he was a beast before injuries.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
not true.
Jones drew- 2nd rounder, AP,-1st, shady mccoy- 2nd round, matt forte second round, steven jackson 1st round, ben tate 2nd rounder
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
im sorry i misread.
regadless of it the majority of that list is first or second rounders. only a couple are not drafted or below the 2nd round and that can be very useful to have on the team. the texans are a great example of that.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
That would be nice
Or even Chris Rainey/Jeff Demps in the 5th. Both have Percy Harvin ability. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they are Harvin, but both are lightning in a bottle that we could hand it off to, throw swings and screens to, and spread them out.
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They were busy getting manhandled by what I even their own fans called a bad run blocking oline.
That shows on the dline play and linebackers.
by flash_kiley on Nov 28, 2011 1:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lb's are trash. worst in the league by far.
These lb’s are the worst. At least i actually seen quincy black make a tackle behind the los yesterday. Round of Applause. Geno sucks anyone on here could of caught that pick it was right to him. Mason Foster gets a pass this year because he’s a rookie and had no offseason and has shown he can get off blocks at least. We need to pull one of the lb’s we have on our practice squad up to replace Geno. And D.watson should be starting over black.
and replace them with who?
two other rookies? then the the cycle continues. i say get rid of black and keep hayes. this team does too much renovation. sometimes you got to piece it together little by little. look at the eagles. whole brand new team of all stars and they are worse off than us. you cant win that way.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
At this point replace them with Hayward and Watson
Hell, at this point, replace them with 2 old ladies.
Yugly.
Idc
Replace them geno’s been in the league what 4 years now still hasn’t learned how to shed a block. Black has no football instincts to speak of so it doesn’t matter if you replace him with a rookie or not. Linebacker coach needs fired. Like why the hell would you fire your lb’s coach and replace him with a db coach? Replace them with 1 rookie and sign a vet fa.
In Blacks defense...
he played more aggresive this week, but he was still WAY too tentative. When the lineman were coming to block him he would stand there. He needs to attack the LOS that way even if HE doesn’t make the tackle he can still re-direct the RB into a hole. So somone else can step up and make the play before he hits the second-level. Black waits 5-6 yards downfield (similar to Ruud) and by then the RBs have too many cutback options. I say draft LB high to replace him, who is more aggresive and keep Hayes for another year….if Hayes doesn’t perform then replace him next year that we aren’t dropping off too much in the EXP level at LB.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hayes another year?
I cant understand why you guys could possibly want either of these olbs starting in any form next year.
Because
if we throw in 2 more rookies then we have 2 des with 1 yr experience, 3 LBS with 1yr or less, and 2 DTs with 2 or less exp. It’s too much to overcome. Even starting ONE rookie LB next year puts us back in that position. Even if it has greater upside or payoff it just doesn’t work out like that and Hayes isn’t bad enough to just start a rookie over him. There’s nothing good that comes from it. Now drafting a rookie LB to replace Black and possibly bringing in a FA to replace Hayes is something to consider.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
That's basically what I was saying
replace black with a rookie and sign a veteran to play hayes’s spot
Geno is only 24 years old.
He is young and has shown flashes of great play. He isn’t having a great season, but the Geno hate needs to stop. He has a promising future in my opinion and has played much better than Black the past couple of years.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
This team hasn’t had solid D-line play since, Marinelli left. He and Jim Washburn are the best in the business, at getting the most disruption from those guys upfront. It’s hard to believe this team drafted four top flight defensive linemen that past two years, and still struggle to get to the QB. Stopping the run? It’s a matter of “want to” and gap control. Too many times have the LB’s been two steps too late filling the hole. Tanard Jackson got his ankles completely snapped by Johnson because he took a bad angle. The run support and pass defense has been abysmal since Grimm got hurt. Morris is supposed to be this DB’s wizard, yet last week, he allows Talib to play two yards deep in the end zone, while the Packers are at the 5 yardline of the Bucs. Rodgers saw it, threw a bullett to Nelson and it’s an easy six. Was Talib afraid of being beat deep from five yards out?! You can say what you want about having talent, but for those who underestimate the value of good solid coaching…try watching the Bucs this coming Sunday. As for the tackling, is there a limit for how much I can write?…lol. You wait all year long, only to be subject to this. Lockout or no lockout, tackling is taught at the lowest levels of the sport. Do these guys forget, and have to be reminded in training camp every year? It comes down to the coach and whether or not he has the ears of his players. I think Morris is in trouble.
tackling
has been an issue throughout the entire NFL. Watch the other games too, its terrible. Tackling isn’t an easy thing to coach if you can’t practice it. Tanard gets exception due to not playing for so long. That’s why there was improvement when Rah threw in an extra padded practice. Young players NEED that. Whether they’ve played all their life or not. NFL is becoming a disgrace to the sport with alot of the rules they’ve implamented to keep players “safe”. It’s not so much “forgetting” as it is repetitive memory for the body.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
mmm
on the extra padded practice I was reffering to last week. Tackling was better, but there were things that were exposed in coverage.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I understand your theory, but I watched two more games yesterday afternoon and last nights game between KC and Pitt. In all three games, the defenses were executing the basics of tackling. Driving the shoulder, head up and wrap up. The one guy who tried to take a kill shot, knocked himself out of the game, Palamalu (once again). Teaching 1st year players, I can see, but what about the vets? No excuse. You play this game for most of your life and you need to spend time working on it? Sorry, I can’t see it. T-Jack taking a bad angle, has to do with taking a bad angle…not absence. He knows he has to set the edge on those cutbacks, that’s why he’s there. Morris put him there for that reason, so what’s the excuse? The crazy part about everyone here voicing their displeasure over the Bucs defensive woes, is that we’re talking about basic principles. We’re not talking about complicated schemes, mix matched coverages or anything that requires a great deal of thought. We’re all complaining about the lack of will in making a tackle, rushing the passer, playing sound man to man technique or zone coverage. We’re wondering why, after drafting premium D-linemen so high, are the Bucs blitzing every other play. If you don’t give them a chance to pass rush as a unit, then you’ll have what’s
been going on. Guys stunting into each other, bottlenecking at the center of the line. I thought Millard was a great hire, but sometimes a great player can’t translate what he could do on the field. We all miss the simplicity and ferocity, of the defenses from the past. Again, that came from coaching.
Our tackling is terrible, but it is NOT just tackling
Johnson carried 23 times for 190 yards and averaged 8.3 yards per carry. In 10 games before playing Tampa Bay, Johnson averaged 16 carries, 50.9 rushing yards per game and 3.2 yards per carry.
That alone says a lot, but there’s more. Johnson gained 152 of his 190 yards before initial contact. Johnson’s previous high for yards before contact this season was 69, and that came in Week 4.
Read that part I bolded again. Yes, our tackling has been horrible. Really, really horrible. The problems are a lot deeper than that though.
Yugly.
I'll say it again, we do not fare well against zone blocking teams.
That means we aren’t disciplined in gap control.
Oderint dum metuant
Lol
Idk if anyone will argue that our tackling isn’t horrible. (Wish there was a better word). It seems like everyone we try to tackle is a greased up naked guy in the shower. It’s difficult NOT to point to the coaching at that point…and I haven’t really seen a problem with the scheme, or the plays called on Defense. There always seems to be people there, yet no one is making a play? It’s almost like everyone is waiting for someone else to make a play….the only person who has countered that style of play is Ronde Barber. And it’s not that he’s better physically, it’s just that he’s making the play. Plain and simple. I’ve watched Rondes interviews looking for something that might indicate he thinks Raheem is in over his head but he seems to fully believe Raheem is doing things right…….so my only explanation is pointed to experience…..we have 34 guys on the roster with 3 years or LESS exp. And 27 of those 34 have 2 yrs or less.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Ronde was tackling well this year too but stats don't lie (usually)
If I’m honest, the inspiration for this research just so happened to be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. After watching them miss 42 tackles in three games, I was astounded and started digging to find out just how much worse they are than everyone else. Well, as it turns out, they’re quite a lot worse. Their 15.54% of attempted tackles missed almost makes even the atrocious Eagles look competent. Almost. It’s nothing new for the Bucs as they had the sixth-highest percentage last year, but it’s almost impressive how much worse they’ve become. Players deserving special mentions (percentage of tackles missed in parenthesis) include Quincy Black (25.5%), Ronde Barber (22.7%) and Tanard Jackson (a staggering 44%) who have all played significant parts.
Yugly.
Ronde might not tackle well, but he comes up with big plays at big times.
I’ll take the trade-off.
Oderint dum metuant
I think he is having a good year
outside of his tackling it would seem. That forced fumble was beautiful.
Yugly.
Thats
pretty bad. I wasn’t saying Ronde was a good tackler. I was just saying he makes plays. As in creating turnovers ect. and Tanards % is pretty damn high and it shows on the field. Particualarly yesterday…..jesus. If I was the coach I would dialing up tackling drills all week long but since we can’t do that…..Idk how Raheem can coach that…..unfortunately inorder for us to start winning he is gonna have to find a way.
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Youth and inexperience could explain our defense being undisciplined, but it is the coaches job to make sure they are disciplined.
Oderint dum metuant
Agreed.
however it’s difficult to teach what you can’t practice….and our problem is tackling. I just don’t know how you fix that at this point. It’s hard to see that problem being resolved quickly…
by Luckydabney7 on Nov 28, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe time to start doubting Dominik?
McCoy will likely be an average DT at best, and seems more likely to be a huge bust at this point. Price shows flashes but can’t stay healthy. Why Roy Miller is employed by an NFL team befuddles me. I’ve never seen a DT get blown up at the LOS more often than him. I’d love to see a YPC stat when he’s on the field. The Bucs give the middle finger to any FA LB but grossly overpay Quincy Black, who should be at best a special teamer on an NFL team.
The 1 thing the organization needed to do when hiring a head coach that was, IMO, way over his head was to insulate him with experienced coaches at the coordinator position. Instead they hired people just as inexperienced and over their heads as Morris was. Like the coach before him needed to fire himself as OC, Dominik needs to give his DC the axe and bring in a veteran coach that will get thru to these players. I believe the organization has purposely stayed away from almost anyone that could garner more respect than the HC (and this includes cutting D. Brooks) so as to not usurp his authority. But at this point I think all parties involved should realize if they want to keep their jobs for long, somebody needs to be in place on the coaching staff that isn’t learning on the job.
I'm not ready to label him a bust yet
but if he can’t go a full 16 games next year…………….
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'll settle for 13.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
it would be nice to get a full season out of your so-called star player
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'll agree to disagree
He hasn’t shown me that he could be anything more than a homeless man’s Tommy Harris. The potential is there, that’s why he was drafted 3rd, but between the injuries due to poor tackling and the ‘sun was in my eyes’ excuses, I think he’s going to be the Ryan Leaf to Suh’s Peyton Manning.
Don't forget the "unstoppable dynamic new technique of pass blocking" utilized by the Lions.
That was a head scratcher
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
This quote:
“Instead of their offensive line setting like they normally do, everybody was sitting back and that eliminates the speed rush, it eliminates everything,” McCoy said. “It eliminates all the moves a d-line can have. So when the offensive line sits back, the quarterback just gets the ball out quick, it basically eliminates the front four. We just got to get that. Our secondary played well. Our secondary did well today. They held them as long as possible. Our d-line won’t say it was anybody else. It was all of us. It was all of us.”
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Wonderful!
Gerald McCoy and Skip Holtz are excuse making All-Americans. Proud to have those 2 in Tampa.
Also, initially, the Bucs hired experienced coordinators
And then they fired them within a season because it wasn’t working.
Yeah but that was after merry go round had already stopped.
Those guys were unemployed after every major position was filled. Glazers timing of firing Gruden put us in a bind.
by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 28, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Bates was a horrible hire.
Not sure why Dominik thought someone who ruined a perfectly good Denver defense would do something good here.
Jagodzinski never even got a chance. Also a horrible hire.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I'm pretty sure this defense of rah's is worse than when bates was here
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure it is
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
wait till the end of the year then we'll know for sure
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Considering the talent we have on the field now compared to then
it’s probably arguable.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I think according to the stats this is the worst defense in buc history
but according to the clown “stats are for losers”
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
i hated that defense bates was running.
look like a disaster from day one when we played the cowboys in week 1 that year. i threw up watchin us get burned deep everytime
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
I heard the Glazers prevented us from bringing back more than one coach who had just gone 0-16 with the Lions.
I have always regretted not getting Marinelli back.
by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 28, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I could see what the Bucs like in Alfonzo Dennard, he isn't all that impressive on tape.
"I'm a little dysfunctional
You're the problem, Please don't awakin me
And I'm that way cause back in the day
Most have forsaken me"
Let's get back to the core here
The only thing the Bucs do well right now is run the ball, and their best player right now is Legarrette Blount despite that. They could use upgrades at a lot of positions. Given that, I cannot see a coherent argument for drafting Trent Richardson over an equally talented player at a different position.
it is getting a bit hard to follow with all these comments
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
yeah but even with that there are several conversations going on all at once
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
if by horse you mean the season then yes it's been dead since we lost to the texans actually
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
a few weeks ago when I said 4-12 here we come I was serious
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
It is a real possibility
I think we end up with 6 wins, but I have to admit I’m pretty worried we’re going to lose out.
Yugly.
I had us at 9-7 at the beginning of the year
its really sad
RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 28, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Draft Richsrdson in the 1st
A d then pick up all LB and DB’s. From there fill the other holes in FA.
by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 28, 2011 6:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Than you sir at least i have someone who sees where im coming from.
They act like we cant get dbs or lbs outside of the first round. we need a serious spark plug on offense. and besides andrew luck, richardson is clearly the best player in the draft. now if we were 10-6 and got bumped from the first round would we draft him? of course not. but we need help on offense to score. help out freeman and make our offense score some points. and get us over the hump. we have invested so many high price picks on defense. lets try to invest on offense.
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
We've BEEN picking up DBs in the later rounds
Myron 3rd
Biggers 7th
Gaitor 7th
Mack Undrafted
That is not cutting it.
Yugly.
well we didnt go high in the draft because it really wasnt a need.
now last year i woulda had no problem going higher in the draft to get a cb. we coulda got one in the 3rd or 4th
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
But last year was very weak on corners
This year is top heavy with corners – lots of low round talent but thin after that. If there was any year to go CB in the draft it is this year. Honestly, I think Dominik has pegged it as that draft as well. We’ll see in April, assuming Dom is still here lol.
Yugly.
so if he are top heavy with corners in the draft
dont you think some will fall in the second round?
Get it to Winslow. He's open!!!!
I said this after the draft this year
CB and LB are the strengths of this draft. The Bucs will play to that.
I hope you are right Sander...
and there are several great CBs available when we draft (still prefer Claiborne or Kirkpatrick) or LBs. I like Courtney Upshaw of ALA but a little bit wary of that last name (Regan Upshaw?)
by Cracker Ball on Nov 29, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
No Sander... I was referring to our own draft pick Reagan Upshaw
out 1996 1st Round draft selection. He didn’t really work out, but clearly a different guy. Good LB play makes good D.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Upshaw is great
But I believe he may be more of a 3-4 outside linebacker/4-3 end. Donta Hightower is a good ILB prospect, and Mark Barron would be a nice addition at SS. There are a bunch if good linebackers, one may be had in the second. Not sure if I see Manti Te’o, Luke Keuchly, Zach Brown, Vontaze Burfict, Donta Hightower, Courtney Upshaw all taken in the first and beginning of the second. And someone like Nigel Bradham could probably be taken in the third, possibly even fourth.
by flash_kiley on Nov 29, 2011 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Burfict is going to fall hard
I like Travis Lewis in the 2nd too, although some of those you listed are better if they drop.
Yugly.
Ah, forgot about Lewis
And Danny Travathan is creating a lot of buzz as well. And Sean Spence. This linebacking crop is deep and talented.
by flash_kiley on Nov 29, 2011 1:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
I’d like to see us go corner in the first and LB in the second (and I wouldn’t cry if we doubled up on either in the 3rd even though I like LaMichael James there).
Yugly.
Burfict is a great player at times...
but lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes. Need to take a good, herd look at that kind of thing (don’t need another hot head like Talib). We should be able to come away with a top CB and LB in the first 2 rounds.
If OT Kalil should fall a bit in the 1st Round – can’t go wrong there either. Improving the OL can make even a fair/good RB look pretty amazing.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not opposed to Burfict if he falls to the 2nd round
Kalil is one of the few players I’d take over a CB. Blackmon is the other.
Yugly.
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