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Let's Talk 2012 Draft

Is it too early to start thinking about next year's draft? Maybe, but it's fun anyway and judging from some of the comment threads lately I'm not the only one doing it. So I figured I'd post this to give us a place to exchange our thoughts.

The unknown variable is where we'll be selecting. I'd suspect we'll end up somewhere between #15 (if we tank down the stretch) amd #25 (if we make it to the playoffs). Simplest way to approach it though is just to project our current record of 4-3 to be 10-6, and to assume for the moment that we'll pick at #20; please don't interpret that as me trying to jinx our shot at the playoffs! We also should remember that we'll have no 4th round pick in 2012 because of the deal we made to move up in last year's 4th round to get Luke Stocker.

First step is to look at our needs, and project what they'll be in April. In order of priority, here's what I think:

Cornerback: This is a no-brainer for me- absolutely the highest priority looking towards the draft (and possibly free agency, but we all know about Dominik's aversion to FA). Ronde will be 37 next year, and he's currently playing on a one year contract. Is there a possibility that he'll come back for the 2012 season? Sure, it's possible- he's a gamer, he's a key team leader, and he's still playing well. Still, the fact that it was a one year contract that was negotiated makes me think that until we know otherwise, we have to assume he's retiring. Then there's the ongoing saga of Aqib Talib. With his trial set for March 26, 2012, there's a slight possibility that a verdict will be reached before the draft, but it's likelier that it will still be ongoing. He's also in the final year of his current contract. Considering how lackluster he's looked this year, it's hard to say what the Bucs will do with Talib in terms of offering a new contract. I doubt that they'll simply let him go into free agency, but they will hopefully address the trial by inserting a clause in his contract that 1) renders its terms null and void if he's convicted and 2) contains little or no guaranteed money/signing bonus. With both the number 1 and number 2 corners' futures with the team in doubt, I can't see how the Bucs won't go with a corner in the 1st round, and I'd wager they'll probably look to add a second in the later rounds.

Running back: Earnest Graham is out for the season (and his career, sadly, may be over), Kregg Lumpkin is a total flop, and Madu is an untested unknown (for now). Blount is developing well and has a firm hold on the number one spot at running back, but our depth at running back behind him is woeful. We need a long term solution, a second back to complement Blount: ideally, a speedy scat back with good hands and pass protection skills. I'd say that after cornerback, this is our biggest need.

O-Line: Playing Chicago at Wembley, we lost both Faine and Zuttah to injuries. The result wasn't pretty. Donald Penn and Davin Joseph are the anchors of the line, but all of the other positions have the potential for improvement. Trueblood has been pretty solid so far this year, but his pass protection still needs work. Zuttah is serviceable at LG, but he's nothing superb. And Faine is good when he's not injured, but it seems like you can count on him having at least one injury a year. Quality OTs usually go very quickly in the draft, but guards and centers stay on the board longer. I'd like to see the Bucs draft at least one lineman in this draft, preferably someone who can challenge Zuttah to start at left guard or who can be shuffled around as needed.

Linebacker: Geno Hayes is in his contract year. He's had some nice plays this year, though he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I'd wager we'll resign him, though hopefully for less than we gave Quincy Black. Black and Foster seem set in their respective spots, with Watson performing well as a backup. But we're too thin across the board- use the same two-injuries-in-one-game scenario that we experienced with the O-line at Chicago. After Foster left the game, if we'd lost another linebacker, we'd have been shredded. I'd like to see at least one LB added.

Tight end: K2 hasn't performed nearly as well as he did last year- though any TE is going to look shabby by comparison after the emergence of Jimmy Graham. Stocker shows potential, but we haven't seen much from him yet. Another tight end could be good pickup.

Wide receiver: The sophomore slump of Mike Williams is deeply troubling, though the emergence of Preston Parker somewhat makes up for it. Rejus Benn is a deep threat, if and when Olson draws up a plan that involves him actually working as a WR. Dez Briscoe finally showed us last week that he's still relevant. And Ed Gant is still on the practice squad, waiting for his turn. For once, the Bucs are actually pretty loaded at WR- though we could always use more speed. Unless Justin Blackmon or Alshon Jeffery somehow falls all the way down to us, I don't think the Bucs need to draft a WR in this draft- though I realize I may be in the minority in that particular opinion.

Safety: With T-Jack back in business, Sean Jones playing well, Cody Grimm back with us next season after recovering from his injury, and Corey Lynch, Larry Asante, Devin Holland, and Ahmad Black (plus Myron Lewis, if we convert him) all ready to back them up, we're very deep at safety. Not a position of concern in this draft.

D-Line: We've got a very solid corps of defensive lineman- not a position of need.

Fullback: Erik Lorig is solid as our starter, and fullbacks usually go undrafted- no need to use a pick on one.

Kicker/Punter/Longsnapper: Koenan, Barth, and Economos are are solid- no needs to be addressed.

So with our needs in mind, let's take it round by round looking at some of the prospects that might be available to us:

1st round:

As I said above, it's my opinion that we need to take a cornerback in the first round unless a top ten prospect that would fill one of our other needs (Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon, Jonathan Martin, or Alshon Jeffery) falls all the way down to us. Let's have a look at who could be available:

Dre Kirkpatrick: If we're picking around 20, it's likely he'll already be off the board. If he isn't, we shouldn't hesitate. Kirkpatrick is 6'3", 190 lbs., and is projected to run a 4.46 40; he's been an absolute beast for Alabama. If you're looking for a guy to defend the Calvin and Andre Johnsons of the world, he's the physical archetype of what you want.

Morris Claiborne: A ballhawk with impressive physical skills and excellent speed.

Stephon Gilmore: Another big CB with excellent speed- he doubles as a punt returner.

Jayron Hosley: At 5'10" and 172 lbs., he's smaller than the first three, but he has excellent speed (another who doubles as a returner) and excellent ball skills.

Alfonzo Dennard: Rumor is that the Tampa Bay scouts are very interested in Dennard. He's dropped on some draft boards, due to an injury that kept him out for the first three games of the season. I watched the Nebraska/Michigan State game earlier today and he looks completely recovered- totally shut down B.J. Cunningham. He's 5'10" and 205lbs, projected to run a 4.45 40.

Any one of these five guys would be an outstanding choice for the Bucs in the first round, and could project to start for us in 2012.

2nd round:

The further along we go, the more unpredictable it becomes, due to the uncertainty of who will still be available and how they'll match our needs. If one of the five cornerbacks from above is somehow still on the board (unlikely), doubling down would be a wise investment. Here a few other possibilities for round 2.

LaMichael James: I know that a lot of other Bucs fans love the idea of drafting the Oregon running back to pair him with Blount. James has electric speed and great receiving ability- he's considered to be a contender for the Heisman. If he's available, I think he'd be a perfect match for our needs. My top choice for our second pick.

Cyrus Gray: In the event that James is already off the board, Gray would be a good consolation prize. The Texas A&M product has a great burst and strong receiving skills.

D.J. Fluker: I'd expect the Alabama RT to be gone before the Bucs make their second pick. If he's still on the board, he'd be a very solid choice- he's 6'6", 335 lbs., and excels in both run and pass protections.

Chase Thomas: The Stanford OLB woud be great choice- he's one of the keystones of their defense.

Lavonte David: The Nebraska OLB is a dynamo on the field with superb tackling skills- he set a single season record for Nebraska last year with 152 tackles.

Janoris Jenkins: Jenkins isn't huge but he has an incredible skill set as a cover corner. The only reason why he would fall this far (or further) is the same reason the Bucs might hesitate: he was arrested a couple of times for smoking pot and got kicked out of Florida as a result. Do we want to take the risk of picking up T-Jack, Jr. (in terms of suspensions, not tackles)?

3rd round:

Again, if any of the guys we've already covered are still available, pull the trigger. Remember that we have no fourth pick, so this is our last shot before the late rounds. A few possibilities:

Ryan Miller: The giant guard is surprisingly mobile for his size: he's 6'8" and 310 lbs. He's played RG and RT at Colorado, but would probably be plugged in next to Penn at LG if the Bucs drafted him.

Ben Jones: The center from Georgia has both run blocking and pass blocking skills- he's the same height as Faine but bulkier at 316 lbs.

Coby Fleener: One of Andrew Luck's favorite targets, the 6'6" 248 lb. tight end has excellent run blocking skills as well.

Brandon Boykin: Another option for doubling down at CB, the Georgia product has excellent speed (yet another who doubles as a KR). Last season he had 44 tackles with 6.5 tackles for a loss and three interceptions.

Sean Spence: At 6'0", the Miami OLB is a bit undersized, but he's an absolute ballhawk. Last season he had 110 tackles with 16 tackles for a loss, 2.5 sacks, six passes broken up, and one forced fumble.

Isaiah Pead: Another RB option if we miss James and Gray. The Cincinnati standout is notable for having great pass protection skills, along with good speed and receiving skills.

T.Y. Hilton: One WR who might be worth considering is this Florida International product. He's got superb speed and is a legitimate deep threat, with superb kick returns skills as well.

The late rounds
:

Rounds 5, 6, and 7 are always about grabbing the guys that have been overlooked- here are a few sleeper picks that might catch the Bucs' eye:

Alex Hurst: The RT from LSU projects to move inside to guard in the NFL. Good run blocking and pass protection skills. Excellent power, technique, and work ethic.

Moe Petrus: The UConn center started off as a left guard and can play both positions. Good mobility and strength, sometimes inconsistent technique.

Cameron Chism: The Maryland CB had an impressive sophomore year with 54 tackles and 4 interceptions, but declined somewhat as a junior with 67 tackles, no interceptions, a forced fumble and a sack. So far this year: 41 tackles, 2 interceptions, and a sack. Could be a good third day pick if we're doubling down on CBs.

Jeff Demps: In the event that the Bucs don't pick up a RB in the opening rounds (and I for one will be swearing at my TV if that's the case), Demps could be worth a look in the 7th round. He's a Florida hybrid RB/KR with blinding speed: projected to run a 4.25 40. The problem? He's 5'7" and he's been out twice this season with injuries, so there might be durability issues.

Phillip Lutzenkirchen: The Auburn tight end cut his teeth run blocking for Cam Newton. He's been underutilized as a receiver in Auburn's offense, but has the skills to do the job.

Josh Chichester: The Louisville tight end has 20 receptions for 280 yards and 1 TD this season. He was originally a WR, so his run blocking skills are still being developed. He's got the physique to make it work though: he's 6'8", 240 lbs.

Andrew Sweat: The Ohio State OLB made the starting lineup as a junior in 2010 and had 41 tackles, 3 TFL, 1 forced fumble, and 1 interception. He hasn't had much visibility but could be a quality day 3 choice.

Ryan Baker: Last year, the LSU OLB led the team in sacks (7) and was second in tackles (85). So far this year he has 33 tackles and 1/2 sack. He missed the home opener for violating an unspecified team rule, and played with a broken jaw wired shut for the first month of the season.

So with all that in mind, my mock for the Bucs would look something like this: 1st round, Stephon Gilmore; 2nd round, LaMichael James; 3rd round, Ryan Miller; 5th round, Cameron Chism; 6th round, Josh Chichester; 7th round, Ryan Baker.

What do y'all think? Any players of note I've missed that you think we should make a play for? How would you prioritize the draft? What do your preliminary mocks look like?

Content provided by a member of Bucs Nation and does not necessarily reflect the view or opinions of Bucs Nation.

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Depending on our place in the first.

 I really find it hard to believe that DB’s are 5 deep in legit first round talent. Let’s say we are in a position to take the best G/C or the 5th DB. I’d take the lineman and take talent over need. I know we need a CB but reaching at a position is the biggest reason players bust.

by Pirate25 on Oct 30, 2011 11:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I totally agree

Besides there are things we can always do to help cover up our need a DB. Remember next season our DLine will only be better, giving the QB even less time in the pocket, i do agree that DB is a HUGE need; I’d pick the best OLine over the 3-4th best DB anyday

I also think OLine is a need for us, maybe it’s just me but i feel we can NEVER have enough good OLinemen….

by shadowchicken on Oct 30, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

We will be picking fairly high in 2012...

not 3rd overall or anything like that – but maybe 10th or so. So many holes to fill (especially so when you are determined to ignore the F/A market) with CB being a desperate need on DEF. WR and RB have to be near the top offensively. Please, no more TEs or “project” players – not working out all that well (Myron Lewis is a good example of that) because of our staff. Not the type that seems to possess the ability to nurture and build. Our project DBs are still around here because we refuse to replace them – not because they are SO amazing.

Leave that to the Belichicks, Parcells or the Walshes.

by Cracker Ball on Oct 30, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

10th?

The Bucs would have to have a pretty disastrous second half for that to happen. They’re more likely to pick right around where they were picking last season – 15-19, or higher if they do manage to get into the playoffs.

I don’t see any desperate needs on this team, though. There are many areas for improvement, but nothing that is such a big weakness that it has to be fixed – unlike last year.

I also don’t know how you can say the staff doesn’t improve players. Legarrette Blount? E.J. Biggers? Cody Grimm?

by Sander on Oct 30, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cornerback isn't quite desperate yet

But it likely will be by April. If both Ronde and Talib are gone, I’d say that position’s a huge weakness that needs to be fixed. Even with them in, it’s one of the weak spots of our squad.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I LIKE ...

Gaitor , i think he is one of the few db’s in the league that could run step for step with the speed caliber player like desean jackson & mike wallace , He plays so youngry & hyper when he in there im excited about our secondary , I think asante , black , holland , & gaitor are gonna be impact player in the future with this d-line & t-jack leading the way e are gonna be good , I wouldnt judge myron lewis so fast either i know he hasnt done anything but he hasnt been healthy either in as soon as our db’s can get on a clockwork routine with ouur d-line we are gonna be solid , biggers is solid at best we put him on some big time wideouts in i get mad at em but he plays his butt off . Overall i think with an addition of a elite top 10 talent corner we would be great .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Oct 30, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Gaitor too

But he’s undersized, so there’s a limit to his effectiveness- he’s got a future in our nickel and dime packages, but he’s never going to be our #1 or #2 CB. Biggers is improving fast, but he still gets beat most of the time. Ideally, we need a new CB with both size and speed, someone that’s not going to back down when he ends up covering the Jimmy Grahams and Megatrons.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like Biggers' mentality

He gets beat five times in a row, but keeps coming back. He just isn’t good enough to be anything more than a decent cornerback.

by Sander on Oct 30, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

^This^

Biggers has a great attitude and work ethic- he just doesn’t have the physical gifts to be a top corner. He has a definite ceiling and he’s quickly approaching it.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Biggers is great depth imo

I wouldn’t want to lose him, but I also think he’s not quite starting quality.

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The most difficult portion of our schedule is still ahead of us...

so it would only be “disastrous” if you were foolishly not expecting it.

How did the staff “improve” LGB? Hand him the ball? His steamrolling running style was exactly the same throughout the Pac-10 while he was at Oregon.

I don’t really like Biggers or Grimm – so that argument is best saved for the “homers” on here. We have a real problem with replacing our marginal DBs here – especially so if they were selected by Raheem/Dom. I think they can both suck it, along with your scrub Elbert Mack, and should not really even be on our roster.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the part where you make assumptions...

about people because they feel differently that you do. NE fans don’t have the same issues that we do here… they win, have playoff games and build their team in a smart, logical fashion and win most of the games they play.

I probably would be happier because they do things right and have a great winning percentage, a great coach and usually slap people around. I have chosen to be a BUC fan however, and have ridden on that roller coaster since 1976. If they do something right – they get praise. If they are doing something stupid – they get called out. As it should be.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I understand what you saying

Ill just keep quiet since I have a different opinion.

by huntin0 on Nov 3, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad you post here...

as that is exactly what this place is for. If you agree with me – great. If you don’t – well, that’s OK too. Clearly we both like the Bucs or we wouldn’t be here. I just have a more caustic view of how and why we are where we are. Sometimes you have to take a tough look at what is wrong and do something about it – not just hope it fixes itself.

Keep posting – I like it.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

So I have to like our "iffy" players to be a fan or something?

We are not playing very well and some here like to actually discuss why that may be. The 28th ranked DEF might need a bit of improving – unless NFL stats are for suckers. The DBs we have here might be a good place to start.

Why are YOU here. For validation?

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that we need to improve our secondary

And we need to use a critical and objective eye in assessing our players.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will definitely agree with you on the DBs..

Although our secondary was pretty decent last year it was against some weaker opponenets. I was one that actually expected our pass D to improve this year just becuase I figured our pass rush HAD to improve. Well the Pass rush has improved some (and I feel the pass rush will continue to improve with our current DL), however, our Pass D has clearly not improved. That is somewhat of a surprise to me, and I think it speaks volumes about the quality (or lack there of) of players in our secondary. There are other holes that need filled obviously, but I think thus far the secondary is one of the main areas, if not the main area needing improvement.

by RuudAwakening on Nov 3, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

LGB, Biggers, and Grimm have all developed

They’re better than were last year. LGB is catching well. Biggers isn’t elite, but he’s making more plays than last year. Grimm is very solid- the biggest consern with his is his durability.

The next stretch is certainly going to be difficult. 2-1 over the next three games would be superb, even 1-2 would be satisfactory.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grimm plays pretty well in run support...

but gets toasted and all out of position in passing plays. Not a confidence builder in my eyes. Perhaps not a starter-type guy, but a back up instead. With Talib most likely gone and Ronde riding into the sunset – we need 2 starters. Good ones. I am not sure we will have that unless we draft or sign some. They may seem better, but is that really good enough? Seem to have lots of nickel and dime level players, but no “big time” starters for 2012. This needs to be addressed before we can really consider ourselves equals of NO and ATL in our division – and CAR is really coming on fast. Scary.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You seriously think 7th rounders will become the next Brady in terms of development or what?

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 2, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not all the time... no.

But you can’t miss on a 3rd round CB, or a 5th round punter in a very deep draft. If you do, 2-3 years later a fan will call you out. Well, the he one that has peaches anyway. Sorry that I’m not drinking from the Dom/Raheem Kool-Aid fountain like so many others here.. This team has regressed, we are playing poorly and heading into our tough stretch in the schedule, and we will have another frustrating off-season because of it.

That’s a development we don’t need.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

6th round punter

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 3, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

There are always going to be misses

Even in deep drafts. If you look at the whole balance of that draft, it was very good. So far at least. Even if Myron Lewis turns out to be a bust (which there is no guarantee of).

I think you have some unrealistic expectations with regards to the success of drafting players. Find me five teams that have gotten more out of recent drafts (adjusted for draft position and number of picks) than the Bucs.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

My only unrealistic expectation is...

I seem to think we MIGHT sign some SELECT F/As to supplement the “through the draft” team building process we stubbornly cling to. At what point do you introspectively say “Maybe this concept needs some adjusting?”

I will find you 5 teams – it will take some research, but I will. Maybe you should have said “5 teams as talent-deficient as we were” as most teams do not need to hit on every player. If we refuse to sign F/As, we do need to hit on them (especially on a 3rd rounder).

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that's what I'm saying in my original post

1st round CB and a second CB in the 3rd or 5th round.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cody Grimm isn't out of position

He just doesn’t have a lot of range. He doesn’t get fooled back there.

I’ll agree with you that the corners on this time aren’t big time starters right now. The Bucs used to remedy that by playing Tampa 2.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why try to hide the deficiencies with a scheme?

and it’s a scheme that gets exposed frequently. Sign a couple of CBs that can be successful playing man-on-man, and then change things up with scheming and different looks to keep teams guessing. We are predictable (offensively and defensively) and are really struggling because of it.

Grimm is limited and will be exposed until better players are around him. I just don’t understand why Raheem “falls in love” with these “6 out of 10” players when there are far better options out there (and we have scads of cap room to make it happen).

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe we should keep talib as our no. 2 corner

get him cheap, he would be a solid number two corner and we’d only have to go CB in the first round and that will probably be solved as far as corners go.

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 3, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm somewhat ok with this

but don’t forget he’s probably facing a hefty suspension next year. His off field problems are the issue. At some point his diminished play isn’t worth the hassle. I’m not sure we’re there yet, but we might be close.

by aakks on Nov 3, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah thats why it would depend on the money

but if he gets backed up into a corner like tanard and has maybe one more chance then maybe he can get his head on straight. Its a lot of talent to go to waste and god hope that none of our division rivals were to pick him up. I think any team besides maybe two would love to have talib as their number two corner.

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 3, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aquib talib

Is safe from suspension , Him in his lawyer has provided management as well as the league with enough info about the case that he is likely to beat the case , The story broke wrong in the media took it in spread it in a negative way thats why raheem broke the rule in called him to make sure it wasnt like that , Talib will be back next year without anytime missed . But i would like him to be the #2 corner as well if he doesnt step it up .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 3, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only problem with that idea

is that it relies on him not being found guilty and sentenced to serve time in prison.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 3, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

well thats the reason you would get him cheap

and then youd have biggers take over for a year (considering his sentence would not be longer in that case of course it wouldnt be worth it). Because either way if we draft two stud corners they wont play elite in their first year

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 3, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

After Watching The Top Two Db's Compete Lastnite In The Lsu/Ala Game .

I respect dre kirkpatrick so much more now . We some how have to get this guy , Did yall see the toughness & swagger & demeanor he played with , He literally took both of lsu top two players out the game #2 & #7 , When you make a guy play dirty in a game like that just to get you off the field knowing that he’s disciplined you are a bad man . Dre kirkpatrick hands down is the top corner . Claiborne is nice but he to similar to talib skill set wise . Kirkpatrick like asomugha in his prime on the raiders straight nasty .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 6, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 6, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

10th overall?

We would have to melt down spectacularly to pick that high. Even a record of 7-9 or so, which is about the worst I can realistically see us finishing, would have us picking in the mid to late teens.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best O-Line players are probably Matt Kalil and Jonathan Martin- doubt they make it past the first five picks. O-Line is definitely a concern, but with the potential for Biggers and Mack to be our #1 and #2 CBs next year if we don’t address the position, I have to think it’s our highest priority.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This looks to be a very good, very deep year for CBs

Every scouting report I’ve read consistently ranks all five of these guys as 1st round talent. Don’t think that they would be a reach- but as I said, if the BPA fills another need, we could always go in that direction.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe we'll double up on a position and take 2 DBs next year.

Or Brent Grimes, that would be fine too.

Good Guys Don't use the reply button

by stanleygoober on Oct 30, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

That's what I'm thinking

One cornerback in the first round and a second one in either the 3rd or the 5th.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grimes

is good at times, but again, he’s undersized. I feel like we’d be overpaying for a nickelback.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hadn't realized he was 5'10"- you're right

For some reason, I’d thought he was 5’8" or shorter. Grimes would be a good FA pickup for us.

<insert standard back and forth about the Bucs’ unwillingness to go after FAs here>

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

REPEAT !!!

We gotta go get the players we want & the players that fit , The elite players there is a rookie scale we dont lose if we trade up in the draft we only three elite diffrence makers away we gotta get agressive in attack our board in sto settling for players thats on the board its fair too say detriot lions stole two of the most dominant players in football from us because we wasnt aggressive in getting who we want , Yall know calvin johnson is who we wanted but they didnt wanna make the trade so we had to settle for the late gaines adams , same goes for suh & mmcoy i like mccoy but im a loser in i like suh stats .
 
Needs in order :
  
 priority #1 : offensive line : john martin stanford , matt kalil usc , riley reiff iowa , brandon washington miami , david decastro stanford , michael brewster ohio state , peter konz wisconsin .
  
 priority #2 : defensive back : lsu morris claiborne , virgina tech jayron hosley , s.carolina stephon gilmore .
  
 priority #3 : running back : alabama trent richardson
  
 priority #4 : linebaker : miami sean spence , n.carolina zach brown , arizona vontaze burfict .
  
 priority #5 : deep threats wr/te : notre dame michael floyd , arizona juron criner , miami travis benjamin , clemson dwayne allen .
 
JANORIS JENKINS !!!
 
Given the fact that we have tanard jackson & he had the same problem this kid is going threw now , if we could some how get it over to him to leave the purp alone in understand what he could lose by lookin at t-jack case , Then he could be a huge pick because he shut down the likes of ( aj green , julio jones , alshon jeffrey , ) at florida so think about that bucs nation .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Oct 30, 2011 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Okay seriously, you really need to stop with the ALL CAPS STUFF

And start writing a little more readable stuff. Everything you write is rambling and hard to follow.

by Sander on Oct 30, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

YOUR SUBJECT LINES !!!

Which are also always followed by a space and then three exclamation points.

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Oct 31, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay

Thats real petty of grown men who are talking about football .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Oct 31, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry if my sarcasm came across as harsh

But capslock abuse is a pet peeve of mine. I personally try to reserve its use for situations where I actually want to create the impression that I’m yelling, i.e. gameday threads after a big play. If it seems like you’re yelling all the time, people will stop paying attention to what you’re saying.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thing is

Most of these guys will be gone after the first two rounds. You have to look at our needs and the these guys and decide on one- and you have to realize that a lot of these guys (Kalil, Martin, Richardson, Floyd) will most likely be picked before we’re up. Which single player of those above would you fills the biggest need on our roster? I would (and did) say one of the three corners.

Janoris Jenkins: I realized he’s talented, but I don’t think that taking (another) risk on a guy with character red flags is a great idea. Especially as we’re possibly looking at Talib’s replacement. As they say, those who don’t learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think this front office is going to take anyone with (perceived) character issues in the first three or so rounds

They’ll protect them when they’re already in-house, but they seem really focused on the stars and major additions being clean-cut.

by Sander on Oct 30, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

McCoy is the character model for their foundation players moving forward- grounded, high-character guy. Small things like Clayborn getting into an altercation with a cabbie who made racial slurs won’t necessarily be a deal-breaker. Multiple arrests due to illegal drug use? Too risky.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 30, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, stop repeating the same argument.

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Oct 31, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure what position he'd play...

…but I say we draft this guy.

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Oct 31, 2011 1:15 AM EDT reply actions  

so far I'd say our draft needs go like this

Cornerback, Right Offensive Tackle, Running Back, Safety

But it’s still too early for me to say which specific players we ought to be looking at.

Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!

by witty on Oct 31, 2011 8:47 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd put LG over RT

Trueblood has played a lot better this year after getting his extension. We also still have Lee and Dotson to keep him on his toes. Zuttah is a great swing man and an important part of the Oline but we need a high caliber starter there. I’d rather see Zuttah as our next center than the starting LG.

by Pirate25 on Oct 31, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Safety?

T-Jack, Jones, Grimm, Asante, Lynch, Holland, Lewis if we convert him- we’ve got tons of safeties already.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Feel a lot better about our safety with tjack back

Not that we couldn’t improve, but other areas are a much bigger need. We have good depth, one great starter, a second good starter if Grimm comes back ok.

I’d pass on safety this draft unless its a late round steal.

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Safety in terms of depth evaluation, injuries to the unit have been harsh

Grimm has shown talent but he’s on his second major stint on the injured list.

Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!

by witty on Oct 31, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just think there are other units with more pressing needs

T-Jack and Grimm as starters will be just fine, if they’re both healthy. Sean Jones is good as next man up.

My focus is more on areas where we might need starters.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah thats a very smart way to look at it

i mean i could go one more year with the safeties we have but we cant go one more year with our current CB’s or OT and we need to get Blount help majorly because running backs get worn out quick.

by Carlitin1988 on Oct 31, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

But i think we are missing the big picture.

We need to draft the best available player on offense. A real home run hitter. So if its a running back or wide receiver i say pull the trigger. I dont care if its Denard Robinson and convert him to RB or something. Lamichael James in the second round? if he’s there lets get him. We have great pieces across the board but we need a true playmaker.

by dcbucsfan on Oct 31, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree

Second round pick should be BPA for our needs on offense. LaMichael James would be the guy I’d pick- but a lot depends on whether Dominik & Co. will rank a RB that high on their board.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, we have more needs than picks

I think OL is going to have to wait another year, other than maybe some depth in the late rounds. I think we need LG and RT, but we have bigger needs to address. This is how I’d address the first 3 rounds:

1. We need a stud CB. We could use 2, but we need to come away from this draft with at least one stud CB.

2. We need another playmaker on offense. TE, RB, WR. I’m fine with any of those 3, we should grab the most explosive one we can find. Maybe even with our first pick if one of the better ones drops a bit (taking best CB with the 2nd round pick instead).

3. Our linebackers don’t look that great to me outside of Foster, who is looking like a great pick up. Let’s get an upgrade.

That’s where my three picks would go. I’d be fine with LG/RT too, or even two CBs, but I wouldn’t make those moves my highest priority unless that’s how the BPA shakes out..

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Let me be clearer about a 1st round playmaker

If Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd, or Richardson are still there when we pick, take them and push off CB to the 2nd round. I don’t see a TE I’d take in the first.

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd make an exception for those four players if they're available

Aside from them or one of the top OTs falling down to us (all of which seem pretty unlikely unless the Bucs whiff on the rest of the season), we need a starting cornerback in the first. Then we grab our offensive BPA in the second. BPA amongst our OT and LB choices in the third.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

We dont need a stud on CB.

We could use one. Totally different. We gotta be able to score. Its so obvious with our lack of a offensive playmaker. Our defense is actually good right now. Better than our offense. And i trust Raheem with scouting defensive guys. Especially CB’s. We have to address the offense. Get some hogs on the o line in the middle rounds.

by dcbucsfan on Oct 31, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta disagree

Excellent d-back play has always been a staple of successful Bucs teams- or successful teams period. Look at New England right now- excellent offense, but a secondary like Swiss cheese- which is why they’ve lost both of the games they’ve dropped, and why they won’t go all the way this year.

If we were only losing one of these guys (Talib and Rodne), it might not be our highest priority, especially if the front office was willing to make moves in free agency. But it’s likely we’re losing both. FWIW, I agree that we should probably go offense in both the 2nd and 3rd.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason i say we shouldnt go 1st round in CB

We have Biggers, Gaitor, Lewis and Mack (some dont like him but he’s decent too me at nickel) already.
Lets say we lose both Talib and Barber. We can get a great CB in the later rounds. I really trust I believe we can get a Mason Foster type in the 3rd or later rounds at CB. And not to many 1st round CB’s pan out but offense is were we are definetly our weakest. Last year we were weak at defense and it was addressed first. We gotta address the needs first. We can get a CB in the later rounds.

by dcbucsfan on Oct 31, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

What players/positions would you draft in the first two rounds?

Offense obviously, but did you have anyone in particular in mind?

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im not too big on college.

I just know Lamichael James is great. Trent Richardson but he might not be available. Denard Robinson i like alot. Maybe convert him to rb. But he’s a playmaker. I dont know who is making big splash plays at wide receiver. Who’s that guy at Clemson. He looks pretty good. Taj Boyd? IDK.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ronde is on the way out

Talib is diminished this year and probably suspended for at least part of next year. Biggers is ok, but nothing fantastic. Past that, blech.

Sorry, a stud CB is a huge need. Even two.

by aakks on Nov 1, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well i believe that we can get one.

Without having to go 1st or 2nd round. Maybe in the 3rd or later rounds. I trust Raheem’s judgment on CB’s.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

We've got enough depth CBs

I think we need at least one, if not two, very good ones.

by aakks on Nov 3, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just dont want to go 1st Round in CB if we dont really NEED to.

If the best player available in the 1st round is a CB then i say do it. Or trade down.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we NEED to

and there are a lot of very good corners likely to go in the first round this year.

by aakks on Nov 3, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We will just see what happens.

Whoever makes the team better and consistent works for me.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

we have, but the Bucs front office hasn't

Ever since punting out Chucky and his friends, the Bucs have shown skittishness with the FA market.

Also, not so sure what the FA market for CBs and OGs will be this next off-season. Last off-season we should have gone after CB Jonathan Joseph, who’s playing well with Houston now.

Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!

by witty on Oct 31, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted JJ so bad

He would have been a huge plug in at a weak position.

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i remember a few years back some thought that leon hall and jonathan joseph were the best db duo in the NFL

obviously worth pursuing that kind of talent but no instead we think myron lewis and ej biggers will be better.

by Carlitin1988 on Oct 31, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Biggers is ok, but he's no Joseph

I think Biggers is a borderline starter. Can start, but better as depth. I like Biggers and I want him here in Tampa, but he is not the answer. I haven’t seen anything since Myron Lewis was picked to make me change my mind that it was a bad pick.

by aakks on Oct 31, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

I just don’t think he’s suited for the top two spots.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may become Ronde JR one day.

Undersized guy but we dont really run the Tampa 2 like that. Its hard to get him on Number 1 recievers man on man.

by dcbucsfan on Oct 31, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be

I definitely want us to hold onto him and keep him in the rotation. He’s only had a year and a half of seeing playing time due to his injury.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have serious doubts that the Bucs front office will do much in FA

And as witty and aakks pointed out, counting on them to do something results in heartbreak. I’ve said it before: Jonathan Joseph and Darren Sproles would have been excellent pickups for the Bucs who could have started immediately and made a major impact on our season so far. But it’s pointless to ponder, because “building through the draft” is the mantra that the Bucs front office chants before they start every meeting.

Biggers is good, but he’s never going to be our number one guy- I think he’ll stay with TB for the long haul as our #3 CB. Lewis has shown nothing since they picked him (I was pissed about that one too)- granted, he’s been injured a lot, but it’s been long enough to call him a flop.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

trust me no one gives Lewis more sh*T than i do

the guy just doesnt have it to be an NFL corner, physically he does but he cant stay healthy and doesnt prove to have great work ethic or else with his skills he would be our no. 2 corner for sure. personally i think that if the best OT is on the board in the first round then you take him and we protect freeman for the long haul but that most likely wont happen so i would take a CB in the first round and maybe even a CB in the second round. I mean if we can put up a great defense then we dont have to be the Packers on offense to stay with top tier teams, since our offense has talent anyways

The biggest issue on offense is a RB, we need someone small, quick, shifty and able to catch passes out of the backfield to compliment Blount, also give him some breathers and so defensive coordinators dont just gameplan for the bruiser they would also have to gameplan for our pass catching weapon out of the backfield. Also Trueblood hasnt been bad, but thats no reason to keep someone. I mean just because someone is abysmal one year and then mediocre the next doesnt mean they should stick around just because they are not horrible anymore.. idk just my two cents

by Carlitin1988 on Oct 31, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very similar to my analysis

When I look at our O-line, I try to ask myself who needs an upgrade the most- Trueblood or Zuttah? The easiest answer is both, but quality OTs in particular tend to go off the board very quickly. The only three home-run OTs in the draft are Kalil, Martin, and Reiff, and I think that they’ll be gone before the Bucs are on the board. One or more of the guys from the next tier- Fluker, Barrett Jones, Mike Adams, Nate Potter, and Levy Adcock I’d say- might be available when the Bucs make their second pick. But then it’s probably a choice between one of them or an offensive playmaker.

If we can land a running back of the type that you’re talking about- quick, shifty, good receiver out of the backfield (say James or Gray)- I’d prioritize that over an upgrade at RT for now. But I’d prioritize an O-line upgrade over another WR (unless it’s the first round and one of the big three- Jeffery, Blackmon, or Floyd- falls to us) in the third round- which is why I’d hope a guy like Ryan Miller, who could potentially challenge either Zuttah or Trueblood, might be available. If a good O-line option isn’t available in the 3rd, get the BPA of either a LB or a CB. Then just go BPA at our needs positions all throughout the later rounds.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

What’s your opinion Sander re Zuttah vs. Trueblood? Which is more important to upgrade?

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zuttah is the best OL depth we have

He can plug in a LG or C very well. I think we need a “real” starter on that side, but I sure hope we keep Zuttah for a long time.

by aakks on Nov 1, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Trueblood easily

I think Zuttah really has played well this year, much better than I expected anyway. There’s no real pressing need to upgrade him, and Larsen is behind him who could still develop.

by Sander on Nov 1, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Zuttah is a swing back up for G/C

I’d like a player who could do tackle/guard.

by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 1, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's James Lee, or Derek Hardman

If Zuttah can consistently play the way he’s played this year he can be a starting left guard, no problem.

by Sander on Nov 1, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is so hard about .....

Trading up for the player you really want & know gonna make a impact for your team ?

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Oct 31, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Simplest answer to that is

You give up multiple picks to do it, and that’s fewer chances to bring another player in. And if the player you mortgage everything on whiffs, you have fewer options moving forward. The Bucs will sometimes trade up a little if they want to insure they get their guy (like with Stocker), but they’re unlikely to trade up in the first round where the price of doing it is very high- look at how much Atlanta had to give up for Julio Jones, and how much richer Cleveland’s going to be in this draft because of it.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Saints too.

Given both those teams trading their first picks in this draft is really going to help us increase our talent level over them.

by Pirate25 on Nov 1, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

At some point ...

You gotta sign more free agents like michael koenen , For an example all offseason i wasnt really stressing signing the big names like sproles,joseph,&asomugha . I wanted the guys that do the little things to help us win like john kuhn , vonta leach , michael bush & a couple more guys who just make play after play for there team there all just winners .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Oct 31, 2011 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey, as far as free agency goes, you're preaching to the choir

I don’t like the fact that the front office does so little in free agency. I just accept it as their policy until they do something different.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's tough to say what the front office might do...

because I’m really not sure what scheme RM is going for. All the man coverage? But in general I agree a corner is a high priority. After that I would say a defender who can freakin tackle (Stupid Forte) would be right up there for me. Running backs and recievers we can take a shot on later.

by Brooklyn Buc on Oct 31, 2011 8:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Like I said above, I watched Nebraska/Michigan State on Saturday

We should definitely take a long hard look at Lavonte David- dude’s a tackling machine. I just want us to finally address the running back spot- 2nd round seems like the best spot to do it, but at least one of the three guys I like for us (James, Gray, or Pead) might still be available in the 3rd.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we need another good back but with Blount onboard...

I’m not sure I’d spend a Primo pick on another guy right now. If it’s the right guy I guess. Ray Rice went in the 2nd. So did Forte (stupid Forte!). I’d rather have an upgrade at linebacker then grab, a Kevin Smith say, just because we want another running back.

by Brooklyn Buc on Oct 31, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Blount proves he can pass block and make catches consistently down the stretch

then I’d argue that a 2nd RB isn’t as high a priority as I’ve made it. I hope that he does. But if he’s still unreliable on those fronts, then our need for a change-of-pace back is still a high priority, 2nd or 3rd round level.

by RookTakesYou on Oct 31, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think a smaller rookie rb will be better at pass protection?

I know we need a shifty 3rd down back, but Blount will be a better blocker than a rookie next year. Blount has yet to have an off-season with the Buc’s. His first year he didn’t join us till after the off-season and then the lockout this year. My point is next year I believe Blount will be in on 3rd downs to block over any rookies we draft just to save Freeman.

by Pirate25 on Nov 1, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I think Blount will get his chance as a third-down back this week

and I hope he succeeds. But we need more depth at RB because after Blount we’ve got nothing (Lumpkin is useless and Madu is unproven). I think getting the most complete back possible will help us the most- speed, agility, and catching ability are most important, but if he has some pass protection skills, all the better. Not saying James, Gray, etc. would be better at pass protection than Blount- just that’s it’s worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick to develop quality depth at RB, particularly seeing as how we have no 4th round pick, and by the 5th round we’ll be down to the remainders rack.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 1, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree we need to restock the running back position...

But not with a pile of rookies. Unless it’s real good value in round two, I’d rather make a real commitment to address that need in Free Agency with a legit rushing threat who is also a proven NFL blocker. Then spend a 2nd round pick on one of our other needs.

How do you feel about Vontaze Burfict? Not sure how he’d fit since we already have Foster, but I love his highlights reels. He seems really instinctive and agressive.

by Brooklyn Buc on Oct 31, 2011 11:43 PM EDT reply actions  

That's kind of my point

I think we should use the round two pick on a top prospect- not a pile of rookies, one rookie who we scout and commit to. Free agency- I’d like to think the front office will eventually make some moves in FA; experience has taught me not to expect it. And honestly, who’s out there on the market (now or at the end of the season) who’s both a legit rushing threat and a proven blocker?

Vontaze Burfict is a huge talent- if he’s available to us in the 1st round, he would be worth consideration. But you have to consider the needs of teams that are below is in the standings and will likely draft before us. For example, if you’re the Panthers, how do you pass on Burfict if he’s available? And I’m pretty certain they’ll pick before we do.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 1, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Running backs are too old by the time they hit free agency for the most part

Look at all the guys that were re-signed or switched teams recently. Sproles worked out of course, but Deangelo Williams and Chris Johnson finally got paid and haven’t shown up at all this season. I think a lot of times a guy like Derrick Ward gets paid and loses the hunger. Once they have that fat signing bonus and a couple million in the bank it’s a lot harder to go running head first into a nasty defense 30 times a game.

It’s just too risky to acquire a free agent RB unless you can get him for an absolute steal. Rookies are cheap and in all honesty it’s probably the easiest position to plug and play in football. Rookies are also hungry and are truly playing for their livelihood. I’ll take a 3rd round running back over a veteran any day of the week.

I know their are examples of players like Michael Turner getting a contract and playing well, but it’s a big risk. The free agent crop of running backs is not that impressive either. Aside from Ray Rice and Matt Forte, who aren’t going anywhere, it’s pretty bleak. Justin Forsett, Marshawn Lynch, Steve Slaton, and Maurice Morris are probably the only names on the list that intrigue in the slightest. Here’s the list I used: http://nfltraderumors.co/2011022012-nfl-free-agents/

Check out the tight ends and start getting excited like me.

Shiancoe
Jermichael Finley
Fred Davis
Greg Olsen
Kellen Davis
Martellus Bennett (I think he starts for about 20 teams but has been stuck behind Witten)
Marcedes Lewis
Jacob Tamme (played well for injured Dallas Clark last year, but Peyton Manning can make anybody look good)

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain

by LeeCaz on Nov 1, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are you suggesting we get rid of Kellen or that Stocker just isn't that good?

Other than Finley and maybe Olson, I don’t see anyone who could replace Kellen and his skill set (I’m assuming that is who you are trying to replace).

by jBen05 on Nov 1, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kellen Winslow is limited to getting open by running routes

He’s still useful, but he’s not an all-around tight end right now. The Bucs have tried to isolate him more on cornerbacks this year by splitting him out to one side and having three receivers on the other side, but it hasn’t produced much. And he can’t get down the seam. Getting a tight end down the seam is a terrific way to threaten zone coverage, but Kellen doesn’t seem to be able to do that now.

by Sander on Nov 1, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Easy.

Throw to were only the receiver can catch the ball. Qb’s do it all the time. Leading the receiver or back shoulder throws. Not every time can the receiver outrun the defender or are they left wide open. Receivers do make catches with a defender on them Sander. Thats pretty much normal in the NFL. And the video that you posted on Josh Freeman’s interception to Brian Urlacher at the Bears game was not due to Winslow not getting open because it was a zone coverage. Which is Freeman’s problem. He has problems this year with that. Thats not Winslow not getting open on a man coverage.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Freeman has been doing that

But Winslow wasn’t open. That’s a large percentage of those interceptions, and missed out routes. He has been leading Winslow, it’s just that he’s covered by a linebacker underneath and there’s no room there.

And no, not every play is on Winslow. But, he hasn’t been getting open consistently downfield.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just watched the clip on the SF game.

Winslow had his man beat and Freeman just underthrew the ball.
You just said that linebackers are playing him underneath, so that means that Freeman shouldnt throw underneath. Simple. He should throw the ball over the defender and lead the receiver forward. He’s underthrowing or overthrowing receivers. I havent really seen alot of miscommunication on route running.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

That play was explained later as Freeman expecting Winslow to run a different route

In their own words. That would explain the underthrow, though it probably still would have been a pick.

But even if he had thrown a better ball, he could not have gotten it to Winslow there. The cornerback is in perfect position to undercut Winslow. WInslow is not open there. You can’t lift a ball over a linebacker 20 yards downfield to a player 2 yards behind that linebacker.

Look, the reason he isn’t open is that teams are playing him underneath. Obviously Freeman shouldn’t throw it to covered receivers. No one is denying this. At the same time, the fact that Winslow doesn’t seem to be open much also says something abuot him.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you get the ball correctly to a covered player?

Back shoulder throws (impossible to defend) and better timing with your WRs combined with crisp route running. Benn has the size to win “jump ball” throws too.

Let Olson leave and openly seek a replacement. Using the press conferences by letting them work for you to spread a message. Our HC needs to voice his displeasure openly with the OC performance and one of two things will happen: Olson will improve or he will leave before he gets fired. The classic “win/win”.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't

And I don’t think the OC is the issue here. It’s too easy to confuse an OC’s performance with player mistakes.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, it's an issue...

but not the only one. Poor player performance combined with some suspect play calling. I didn’t like Olson last year, still don’t this year and I won’t again in 2012 (if he survives the off-season).

We have more personnel issues that last years 10-6 record would suggest.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

How could he not get the ball when he is 2 yards past the defender?

2 yards is a lot of seperation to get the receiver the ball. The only other route you can run is going forward if you have a defender behind you? Why comeback underneath? And even if you run a route to the left or right YOU CAN THROW OVER A DEFENDER especially with an arm like Freeman’s. Freeman just isnt making the good throws the MAJORITY of the time.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 3, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not physically possible to consistently throw over an underneath defender in that position

It isn’t.

Also, you just illustrated my point perfectly: Winslow doesn’t have the speed to really threaten a defense anymore.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is it not physically possible to conistently throw over a defender if your a decent NFL QB?

This happens all of the time every game. How can you not throw to a man who is in front of another person who is trailing behind them? Cmon you cant be serious? And how did i illustrate the point of Winslow not threatening a defense anymore? Maybe its because Freeman checks down alot and teams are running a zone underneath to stop the checkdowns. Freeman hasn’t been throwing alot of deep balls this year. And they defenses are running zone coverages. Not man. The interception by Rogers in SF was a zone coverage. So was the Urlacher interception in London. that simple.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 4, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

A defender in that position

As in, in the specific play we’re talking about. You can’t get it there in time with such an arc that it travels over the head of that defender, but still is catchable for the receiver.

You illustrated by saying that Winslow can’t run any other route to get open. You’re absolutely correct. He couldn’t run a different route. And he wasn’t open.

by Sander on Nov 4, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So if a defender is in the zone in the flats and the receiver runs a go route your saying a qb cant physcially throw the ball over the defender?

That is insane. And i never said he couldnt run another route. I said he should keep running forward if a defender is behind him. You trying to twist my words. Face it your just wrong on this one.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 4, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I never said that

I said that on that specific play we were talking about, the position of the cornerback made it impossible (or at least very very hard to get the ball to Kellen Winslow)

I’m not talking in generalities, here. I’m talking about that specific play.

by Sander on Nov 4, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also there was a safety over the tap

So running a go route (especially with WInslow’s speed) is pretty much pointless.

by Sander on Nov 4, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

No its not.

There is a window in between the corner and the safety and he was open. Its very easy to get the ball to Winslow regardless of his speed or lack thereof

by dcbucsfan on Nov 5, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not in that situation

There was a window, but if you want to get that ball over a corner it needs to travel a long time at a relatively slow speed. That gives DBs a large window to react – which means Winslow may look open, while he isn’t.

by Sander on Nov 5, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No if you throw the ball at a slow speed the DB can react to it.

You have to throw the ball at a certain direction. In an arc over the defender which is possible. And Even if Winslow isnt “open” how is it his fault that Freeman still throws it to him? Thats on Freeman Not Winslow

by dcbucsfan on Nov 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was.

Freeman just underthrew the ball as his has been doing alot this year. But hopefully he corrects it.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 5, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much what Sander said.

Winslow still has his moments, but he is fading. Not sure if it’s age or it’s just his knee can’t take the grind anymore, but something just isn’t there with him this season. He has never been able to block.

I think the jury’s still out on Stocker, but I don’t expect him to ever be an elite tight end.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain

by LeeCaz on Nov 1, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Greg Olsen and Marcedes Lewis got contract extensions this offseason

Other than that, that’s a pretty impressive list.

I’d be shocked if the Bucs go after someone in free agency, though.

by Sander on Nov 1, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their stubborness needs to stop.

Guys they drafted arent’ hacking it. They need to realize that it takes a lot of luck to draft like Green Bay did. Either that, or they just have WAY better scouts and evaluators of college talent. I think tight end and offensive line are two great positions to supplement with proven talent. Running back and wide receiver, not so much.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain

by LeeCaz on Nov 1, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hello... thank you!

The refusal to improve yourself by signing SELECT F/As a specific certain position is just stupid and downright arrogant by Dom. We could be farther down the road if they had… you can’t really build a team EXCLUSIVELY through the draft.

It simply takes too long and you can’t miss on your picks. We miss on our picks.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is what it is

I agree that I’d prefer that they made more intelligent moves in FA. Wishing doesn’t make it so. Honestly, I prefer the conservative approach to the Gruden approach of trying to fix everything through FA and devastating the draft in the process. Wish we could find a happy medium though.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think most of us are happy with a building through the draft plan

but to not supplement that AT ALL with FAs other than a punter (and I love our new punter don’t get me wrong)? That’s just stupid. I’m sorry, but it is. We really should have found at least a few upgrades the last couple years.

by aakks on Nov 3, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

The worst part about it is...

we have more money to spend than anyone. No excuse. Everyone builds through the draft (unless they consistently trade away all their picks) but we don’t use all the remaining tools available to us to acquire players. We trade for guys that are about to be cut anyway (Sean Jones) then overpay to keep our own marginal players (see Quincy Black, Jeremy Trueblood).

Not smart GM behaviors…

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree completely

Nobody is suggesting going back to a Gruden strategy with FAs. There is a happy medium between that and what we’re doing now. That’s where we need to be. Every year we don’t we fall behind.

by aakks on Nov 3, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

if your a great team and still young then yeah build through the draft

but to contend right now we cant wait around for those players to develop, and thats if they develop into great potential. Bottomline we need to start making moves in free agency. Up next we got the saints, pretty much we need to hammer them with the run as they cant seem to stop anyone.

With that being said, and i hate to talk about the past, imagine if we would have picked up a guy like sproles in F/A this year, we would have pounded the saints with 50 runs in between sproles and blount and physically have worn them down, now how do we do that with ? just blount ? no he needs more help and Mark Dominik has to get them that help

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 3, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dom seems to have little confidence in himself...

after the Derrick Ward debacle. I still think our line was more to blame than Ward.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Free agents are available for a reason.

There are ways for a team to keep a good great player. Most hit free agency because they are maxed in potential or expecting a fast decline. I mean how well did winning the off-season work out for the Eagles?

I don’t mind them not spending a lot on free agency when you can atleast have more promise in playing a young guy. It does take longer but being a life long Buc’s fan I’ve learned patience.

by Pirate25 on Nov 3, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

F/As are available for many reasons...

when Warren Sapp left us, he was a F/A, and it wasn’t because he turned into a crappy player. Some simply want out of… say, Cincinnati.

Not sure how you can automatically believe F/As are in decline or something. Many were probably offered big contracts to stay, but decided against it.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

FA's aren't some miracle cure.

They are just as hit and miss as drafting players. Just less upside and more money. I think the team has shown it will go for a player if they think need meets availability. Paying a lot for a punter, offering 100 million to a DT.

by Pirate25 on Nov 5, 2011 5:51 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Select F/As can be part of a miracle turnaround...

like the DEF in HOU. We will get a first-hand look at why we should have signed CB Jonathan Joseph this week.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 7, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It's true

RBs wear down faster than players at any other position.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 1, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

Vontaze burfict would fit because he is ultra athletic & you gotta remember foster can play all three you put burfict big body in the middle then slide foster to geno hayes spot .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 1, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just want one of the big names thats a need thats all ..

If its Rb: Trent Richardson
If its Ot: John Martin
If its Wr: Alshon Jeffrey
If its Lb : Vontaze Burflict
If its Cb : Morris Claiborne

Then if we get one of them we still have options in the second rd at the same needs .

Rb: lamichael james ( i dont want to draft a rb if its not richardson but whatever )
Ot: mike adams or ricky wagner ( not in favor of this either rather sign a proven guy )
Wr: juron criner or travis benjamin
Lb: sean spence
Cb: stephon gilmore

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 1, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

i dont really like morris claiborne

i might get attacked for this lol but i just dont think hell be a stud corner. i would rather us get alshon jeffrey or vontaze burflict or trent richardon

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 1, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

He straight ...

I would take him over dre kirkpatrick doe , I think his ceiling way more higher plus his skill set is like talib’s

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 1, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

These are the positions we DON'T need to draft

I think we can be certain that the first four rounds of next year’s draft shouldn’t have any of these positions as an issue:

1) Punter/Kicker
2) Defensive Tackle (already got young talent here)
3) Defensive End (ditto)
4) Center
5) Tight End (Should still have Winslow and Stocker)
6) Quarterback (maybe a late-rounder for development purposes, esp. if Johnson moves on)
7) Middle Linebacker

Time to shamelessly plug my book and short story!

by witty on Nov 1, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree except for center, i think if we can find good talent in the later rounds then maybe pull the trigger

its just that we have so many needs, i do think LB is still a need, not a big one but we kinda dont have any depth there or at least not much

by Carlitin1988 on Nov 1, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Center is a need

Not as pressing as Corner, but I think Center is the weakest position on our line. Faine is to injury prone and Zuttah is a good replacement, but not a great starter. If we could get the number 1 center in the draft Id take him over the number 2 Corner. But thats just me.

by Bucsfan123 on Nov 2, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Faine needs to go...

as he gets paid FAR too much to play in only 8 games per season. Should be able to pick a C later in the draft.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Faine's contract:
Signed a six-year, $37.5 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus and a $1 million roster bonus in the second year. 2011: $4.575 million, 2012: $5.925 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: Free Agent

LOL, Bruce Allen

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 4, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

True... but the Bucs need to spend it all more wisely

I would be very happy with either OT Matt Kalil or CBs Morris Claiborne/Dre Kirkpatrick for our 1st Rounder. Any one would fill a big need (sorry Trueblood). Later in the draft I’d like to see a WR like Jarius Wright/Joe Adams/Travis Benjamin to scorch the sideline.

Faine is to brittle and injury-prone to make that kind of money. Re-negotiate his salary or cut his 8 game playin butt.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 4, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Getting Travis Benjamin

Would allow us to get rid of stroughter , spurlock , & parker .
In add more talent in better players overall .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 4, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why cut him?

What’s the point? To save money? I don’t care how much money Faine makes as long as it doesn’t stand in the way of the Bucs improving. And it doesn’t.

Also there’s almost no way the Bucs are going to be in position to select Kalil. He looks like a top 5 draft pick.

by Sander on Nov 4, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is taking up half a roster spot (based on his 8 week seasons)

and we seem to have switched our positions regarding the keeping of veteran players/giving playing time to younger players. Let Zuttah keep the position and give a different guard some game time play. Faine is a glass center.

I don’t see us making the playoffs anyway, so at least let’s use what’s left of the season constructively.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 4, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

What different guard?

We already had Zuttah in at LG before Faine (and Zuttah himself) went down because he was better. I don’t, in general, mind replacing Faine at some point, but I see absolutely no good reason to do it now.

by aakks on Nov 4, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who would you want in there instead of Faine?

He’s the best center on this team. And having him at center allows Zuttah to play left guard, where he has looked very good this season. Cutting him does not in any way make this team better.

by Sander on Nov 4, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we give up on them now?

Or does GB and HOU still need to pummel us to convince you?

by Cracker Ball on Nov 7, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Still not out of reach

Doubt they make it, but that doesn’t mean the team is going to give up on it. They won’t.

by Sander on Nov 7, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

No... they won't on both counts

I don’t like the direction this team is headed – and I still don’t believe that Raheem Morris is the one to lead us.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 7, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

But the players love him!

They are ready to run through a wall for him…………

RAHEEM IS A JOKE! OLSON IS GARBAGE! THE GLAZERS SUCK!

by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 7, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not the biggest Faine fan

but he is far from our biggest problem, even if we’re just talking the oline. I’d look for changes elsewhere before making extra unnecessary holes in our line.

by aakks on Nov 4, 2011 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Faine is overrated

I dont like him. But we gotta keep him for now.

by dcbucsfan on Nov 4, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would rather see Zuttah gaining C experience...

and looking at Larsen or whichever scrub guards we have on the roster now.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 7, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I've got it!

Norv Turner gets fired from the chargers and we scoop him up as the OC!!!

by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 1, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

That would be epic

and then add DeSean Jackson in FA.

Hello Lombardi trophy if we do.

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 2, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He what ...

Freeman need doe if we cant get a slshon jeffrey or a michael floyd , A big body playmaker we need to make a play for him he cant cost anything more then a 3rd or future 4th maybe even a 5th considering thats what santonio holmes went for . In you getting arguably the nfl best reciever especially if he has freeman & players coaches like raheem morris & eric yarber that can motivate him in challenge him .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 2, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

...? Are u for real?

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 2, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If brandon marshall

Yes very serious , Look at before when he dominated the league & was catching ah 100 balls for like 3 or 4 years straight , 22 catches in one game , Physical , fast , yards after the catch was league best , He only lost favor & respect when he made a big deal about getting a contract he deserved , Then he not balling in miami because of lack of qb play & a coaching staff that is on thin ice thats not really focused . Put it like this ( hypothetically ) if chris johnson got cut or release or whatever from the titains would you want the bucs to go after him considering the non-productive season he is having , But knowing what how good he is when he get back on track …… Ask yourselves that ?

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 2, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Samething

Excuse my errors towards the bottom .
*what
*titans

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 2, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely not

I wouldn’t want the Bucs to pursue CJ. #1 he’s been awful this year and #2 we’d overpay for him. And, well, #3- it’s not worth discussing because it would never happen under current management.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

This, this, this

Seriously. The Bucs are not going to go out and give up draft picks for any big name, nor are they going to sign big name free agents. It’s not what they do. You may think it’s a smart move, but it’s just not going to happen.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah you maybe 85% rite but ...

I do think we will dip in free agency for our defense of need’s & let the the draft handle making freeman better .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 3, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doubt he would take a coordinator position

Particularly for a HC half his age. But yes, it would be epic.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'll take a coordinator job rather than nothing.

I have a feeling the Charges may shake things up if they don’t make the playoffs. Obviously Turner will take another HC job if one is offered. A lot of people feel he is an an extraordinary OC but not a good HC.

by Brooklyn Buc on Nov 4, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really hope that was sarcasm....

Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?

by Kilgore on Nov 5, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

2012 Draft

1. LSU or ALA CB, or Trent Richardson
2.CB
3. CB
4. I hate the eagles
5. Best offensive player left
6. Best skill position guy left
7. WR from FL Intl.

Free Agency:
One can’t miss stud that will make us better. Maybe an OLB, or an OL?

by BUCSwillDOMINATE on Nov 2, 2011 9:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

We're pretty close in thinking

But Hilton probably won’t make it past the 3rd or 4th round, if he’s the FL Int’l WR we’re after.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more huge pick up / need .... Back up QB

Is what if josh johnson leave in free agency .
Do we go after dennis dixon from the steelers .
Or do we hope baylor robert griffin !!! fall to maybe the 5th or 6th rd.
Or get texas a&m ryan tannehill in a late rd .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 2, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

If RGIII declares...

There’s no way he makes it out of the first two rounds. Probably not even the first half of the first round.

Backup QB isn’t a major need- Carpenter is serviceable in an emergency, and JJ isn’t likely to find a starting job considering how deep the 2012 QB class is.

by RookTakesYou on Nov 2, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

If ....

Tennessee michael griffin & cortland finnegan make it to free agency im gonna petition to sign them .
Or washington laron landry , Omg him in t-jack would be dynamic .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 2, 2011 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I really like Cortland Finnegan

he is a scrapper that takes you out of your game. Except he cannot beat up Andre Johnson.

by Cracker Ball on Nov 2, 2011 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

He is a dirty player from what I've heard

He intentionally tries to elicit penalties and start fights with the offensive players he lines up against. He is also a hot head. We already have one of those. Finnegan’s best years are behind him from what I’ve seen the past two seasons. I’ll pass on that one.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain

by LeeCaz on Nov 3, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Finnegan is on the decline

But I don’t have a problem with a feisty player like that. You need those guys, too. Guys who will do everything to win – including playing dirty.

by Sander on Nov 3, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Playing in our cover 2 would give him an extended career...

compared to “man on man” coverage responsibilities. He may not be the player he was at one time, but still servicable. That and he is far better than anyone we currently have sans Talib (and how much longer will HE be here?)

by Cracker Ball on Nov 3, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not too interested in DRC

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 4, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Considering ...

Who is on the board at whatever pick we pick .
Its a deep draft so the 1st – 3rd rd is gonna be a talented crop of players .
If we cant get the big names we want , I say we trade down to the early 2nd rd in pick up a 4th rd replacement .

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 3, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Has there ever been a draft this early in the season not considered deep?

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 4, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

*draft prediction

"Well, if you guessin' it's me, you guessed correctly
I just stay with a stallion, you would swear I was an equestrian
I hit her with that pipe, call that Nancy Kerrigan
Stay on the greenest greens, call us vegetarians
You be on that minor league, but we smoke professionally"

by 4QB on Nov 4, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Petyon Hillis ?

Anybody Wanna Go Big Back Hunting Again …..

by RIP SEAN TAYLOR 21 on Nov 5, 2011 10:37 PM EDT reply actions  

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