Season In Review: Interior Offensive Line
Over the coming months we'll be going through the different positions on the team, analyzing how they performed last year and what needs to improve for next year. To get a couple of different points of view I've asked the other Bucs Nation writers to contribute for these pieces as well.
This week: Interior Offensive Line
Sander:
The interior offensive line was easily the least stable unit on the field this autumn. It started in the offseason, when Keydrick Vincent was brought in to replace Jeremy Zuttah on the offensive line amid reports that Zuttah wasn't training and practicing with the right intensity. But Vincent was released midseason after suffering an injury, and seeing Jeremy Zuttah and rookie guard Ted Larsen outperforming him. Center Jeff Faine missed time throughout the season and was eventually put on injured reserve, as Zuttah filled in well for him. Starting RG Davin Joseph also was placed on injured reserve late in the season, and rookie Derek Hardman filled in for him for the rest of the season.
With all that turmoil, you would think the offensive line would start to fall apart late in the year. But, surprisingly, that was not the case as the line performed at a higher level toward the end of the season than it did at the beginning of the season. That's a tribute to the coaching of Pete Mangurian, who got inexperienced players ready to play every Sunday. His clashes with Greg Olson were reputedly the reason for his firing last week, and while the O-Line improved during the season it still was playing at a below-average level, at least in run-blocking.
Davin Joseph provides an interesting problem for the Bucs. While he's been the best player on the O-line in previous years and is a former first-round pick, his play this year was not up to his usual high standard and at times simply poor. In pass protection he was beaten regularly, and the fact that the team didn't seem to skip a beat when Hardman went in doesn't speak well for him. At the same time, I've seen some reports that he was playing most of the year on a sprained or torn knee ligament, and that would certainly explain his performance. In previous years, Davin Joseph's play absolutely warranted an extension, and if his play this year was caused solely by an injury that will not prove to be a problem in the future I would expect him to be back as well.
Jeff Faine also presents a problem. While he isn't scheduled to be a free agent, he is signed to an expensive contract and Zuttah filled in very well for him. Despite some erratic snaps, a problem that shouldn't be terribly hard to correct, Zuttah's blocking was about at the same level as Jeff Faine's. Faine could be cut for salary reasons because of that, although the team may need to keep him on to reach a possible salary floor in a new CBA.
Ted Larsen and Derek Hardman were both very similar. Neither of them performed at a particularly high level, but Larsen played adequately as he replaced Vincent and Zuttah at LG. If Larsen can improve his play this offseason he can be a legitimate starting guard, but he was definitely a below-average option this year. Hardman was similar, although he performed worse than Larsen. A starting offensive line with both Hardman and Larsen in isn't disastrous, but it can and should be easily upgraded.
Finally, there's Jeremy Zuttah. Zuttah's strength is pass blocking, and I thought he played better at center than he did at guard. I can see a future for him at that position or at either guard spot, but most of his value may come as a very versatile backup for 3 positions.
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if we can get somebody like Logan Mankins the top guard in the FA market
i’m ok with Larsen at the other guard spot… since we are still thin along the o-line i don’t mind keeping Faine and having Zuttah as a top reserve in all 3 spots although i won’t shed tears if we cut Faine he’s too injury prone
by Brian Ahmed on Jan 28, 2011 2:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Im not ok with Larsen in Pass blocking, dude gets abused in Pass blocking
Im fine with his run blocking though.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
he's just a rookie
i agree with you about his liability in pass blocking but i think he can improve considering he was a rookie off the practice guard… it wasn’t like he was any worse than Joseph who is a 1st pick in his 5th yr
by Brian Ahmed on Jan 28, 2011 8:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, he was worse-
He is too underweight and got pushed by NT’s all day.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
Kudos to our no-name OL though, atleast they showed up more often than not
unlike the Cowboys who bottomed out six weeks into the year. Happy that our team went out and competed.
by Titankillah on Jan 29, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
The Cowboys clearly didn't like playing for Phillips...
as they looked like they should have once Garrett took over.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 29, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Larsen and Hardman are young
I dont want them starting just yet, but i think they are good for depth and got some great experience this year. I think Davin will return to form and I am okay with zuttah as starting Lg and back up center. That being said, I hope we upgrade the Lg spot.
Do we
Need a Fullback this year draft cause lorig is not a good back up Fullback I kinda hope that the second round draft pick will pick up Havili USC FB 6’1 238 pounds the man can block and he can run like a RB, why am I bringing this up because Graham ain’t getting younger He’s in his 30’s and why not bring some one from the draft and train um just like how he train Blount just saying…..
IF U AIN'T A BUC GET THE BUC OUT OF HERE
by WE GOING TO THE SHIP on Jan 29, 2011 1:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I would hope that we see more...
formations like a 3 WR/1TE or 2WR/2TE to spread out the field. That would also help spring RBs loose. Then you could use a “hat on a hat” and be more effective.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 29, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Standard formations for the Bucs this year
I formation, 1TE, 2WR, QB under center
1RB, 2WR to one side, 1 to the other, TE flexed on either side, shotgun.
We basically ran almost our entire offense from those two formations.
A second-rounder on a fullback?
Really? that’s a waste. Fullbacks aren’t that valuable and you can pick up a lot of functional fullbacks for very little investment.
Nothing wrong with Lorig as a fullback, anyway.
Next years line
My guess would be
RT: Dotson/Lee loser is primary backup for T
RG: Joseph(I think we resign him)
C: Zuttah/Faine If Faine loses the battle I could see him getting cut.
LG: Rookie/Larsen
LT: Penn
We could also make a play for Mankins, but I doubt they sign both Mankins and Joseph so probably one or the other. I went with Joseph because he would probably be cheaper and it’s always better to pay your own star players for team chemistry.
I hope they will attempt to sign Mankins...
as in that particular case – you actually get what you pay for. I’d love to see a big OT selected that was SO powerful, so agile and so dominating that it forced a move of Penn from LT to RT. Then you would have a line fully capable of lifting Freeman right to the top of the NFC QB pile.
You just cannot have too many good offensive linemen.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 29, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hope we can get an OG (in the later rounds)
someone like a John Moffitt, Benjamin Ijalana or even OT Marcus Cannon and just move him inside. A big, mean mauler that can just “road-grader” people.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 29, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to see Mankins and Joseph.
I would like to see what Dotson has. He got hurt before we could see what he could do.
What tackle in the draft do you think is better than Penn? From everything I’ve read there isn’t one worth a top 15 pick. I’d have to say our Probowl LT is better than that.
Our "Pro Bowl" tackle...
as you put it, was probably the 5th best OT in the NFC. Only made the Pro Bowl because of some injuries. He looks like he takes some plays off, will give up some sacks, and he really just kind of “Haynesworths” through plays (my new made up word for not going 100% all the time).
I bet Gabe Carimi or Nate Solder will both be better than our “Pro Bowler”…
by Cracker Ball on Jan 29, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hah, you're joking right?
Penn was easily the best lineman of the bunch, and was probably the best or 2nd best tackle in the NFC this year. If the Pro Bowl had been simply about quality of play during the year, then Penn would’ve been a starter over Peters and Gross who had far worse years. Clifton had an okay year and perhaps better than Penn’s, but the’s the only one in the NFC who can legimitately say he had a better year.
Is this Niko using a nom-de-plume?
No, I’m not kidding… Penn looks fat and sluggish. Sander, your normal objectivity seems to be missing on this one. Penn couldn’t hold Cliftons jock strap – although he might let it get a sack.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
You're completely wrong on this one
I’m not kidding. Penn had a very good year, especially as a run blocker.
He's no Joe Thomas or Jake Long and he probably doesn't deserve to make the Pro Bowl in the AFC
But he really was one of the best tackles in the NFC
i would vote him in the AFC also
Long had a shoulder injury that limited his play… Thomas didn’t have his best yr he got beat at times from what i seen in the Browns games heck even Styles White gave him fits the 1st game we played them… i’m not saying Penn is better than them overall just this season he had a better yr than them
by Brian Ahmed on Jan 30, 2011 6:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
why do you hate Penn so much?
i remember you giving negative opinions on my blog about Penn getting snubbed from the pro bowl… he may not be Walter Jones in his prime but he has played as well as any left tackle in the league this yr and he has been a steal for us considering he was originally from the practice squad and we didn’t waste a high draft pick on him… you seem to forget how that position has been a revolving door before Penn took over do you remember Derrick Deese, or Anthony Davis, or Luke Petigout??? we had much worse guys here
by Brian Ahmed on Jan 30, 2011 2:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't hate Penn... at all.
I wanted them to re-sign him, but at a price that was commensurate with his level of play, He is not an elite LT – he plays well and is clearly OUR best lineman, but that doesn’t make him anywhere near the best in the NFC. I have seen every game this season, often watching them more than once, but I do not get blinded by the swarm of floating hearts around my head when I watch us play.
I am glad he plays for us, and he has done well considering his humble beginnings in the NFL. It also doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like him to become the 2nd or 3rd best OL on our team if we can find some awesome players.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
He is arguably the best in the NFC, i don't know what you are watching half the games.
In fact, if half of our other part of the line along with Penn play up to better standards, then we would have arguably one of the best OL’s in the NFL.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
I believe the remainder of the line...
is playing as well as they can – which is why we need to upgrade. There were a lot of injuries to the OL, but every team has injuries, so it is simply something that has to be planned for and addressed when necessary. We should select a good young OT and OG – and let the rest fight for the back-up spots.
The size and escape ability of Freeman made us look better statistically. He is a big man and seems to twist and wriggle his way out of things, but the credit goes to the OL for not giving up a sack when they get beaten – which happened quite a bit.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have to say he did the oppisite of Haynesworth this year.
I saw his game improve after getting his pay day. Now I was afraid he would slack off once he got paid but he really picked up his play this year.
I’m not opposed to drafting a tackle early if it’s the a case of BPA by far. I would just expect them to end up our RT.
Gabe Carimi is a future RT, the dude got beat by Adrian Clayborn in pass pro.
In Run blocking, he is a mauler
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
Also, Solder is awful. His footwork is terrible, and has very little idea of picking up blitzes.
He needs a lot of time to improve.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
As for Nate Solder...
he has been playing very well during the Senior Bowl practices, and has put a gap between himself and the #2 OT prospect. Here is his scouting analysis:
Pass blocking: Solder’s length and athleticism makes him a prototypical pass protector on the blind side. Very difficult to get around when he bends his knees and is smooth in his lateral movement. Resets his hands quickly after initial contact, manages to anchor after a strong initial bull rush. Agile and long enough to combo block down and still push blitzing linebackers around the pocket. Also handles twists and stunts well. Cuts quickly to allow bubble screens to his side. Plays with a narrow base at times, which causes him to lose balance or cross his feet when engaged on outside rushes. Takes short, choppy steps after kick slide, has trouble cutting off quick ends from turning the corner and resorts to diving at their legs. Also gives up the inside lane too frequently. NFL-caliber ends can get under his pads and drive him back on occasion because of his height and inconsistent knee-bend.
Run blocking: Very willing and able run blocker on the edge with exceptional mobility for his size. Good get-off and upper-body strength allows him to latch onto defensive ends and stand-up defenders and take them out of the play. Despite his height, he plays with leverage at the point of attack and can widen his base to anchor. Nimble and quick, he seals his edge easily, gets out in front of screens well, and can block multiple defenders to wall off the back side. Quicker defenders can get under his pads, however, and disengage to move down the line and stop inside runs.
Plus, Mike Mayock is very complimentary on both of them and really really likes Gabe Carimi. That is plenty good enough for me. So, perhaps some more draft homework is in order.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Cameron Jordan pretty much dominated him in the Cal-Wisc game,
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
The OU and Missouri games...
actually make MY point, and you blame Solder because the Colorado QB has no pocket presence? You might need to occasionally take one small step forward in playing the QB position, but he saw and felt nothing. Solder did very well against Cameron Jordan riding him out of the play nearly every time.
Hardly dominating…
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Aldon freaking smith dominated him
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
And that is a guy, i personally do not like.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
OU's defensive end is awful... although CU's offensive scheme is worse.
Seriously, that QB is short.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
I saw a feeble cut block where he was hurdled...
but he all in all he played very well and is a powerful run blocker. Your clips are also from 2009 – not 2010. Some plays were made around him, as gaps were shot, but his man was handled (that didn’t sound right). He can only be expected to block one guy.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
The strength of Wisconsin WAS their run game...
but he is big, very agile and will easily improve his pass blocking technique with some good OL coaching. As for Carimi projecting as a RT – I beg to differ. Here is his scouting analysis:
Pass blocking: Has the elite agility and nimble feet to protect the quarterback’s blindside. Very difficult to turn the corner against because of his lateral movement and solid footwork. Also protects the inside lane well. Delivers a strong hand punch capable of knocking back an opponent, and is able to recoil and extend again. Uses his length to block his man with one hand and knock an edge blitzer off his path with the other. Quick to cut on bubble screens and reverses, though he could get more of his man’s legs to be truly effective. Bends at the waist while engaged; usually holds on to prevent secondary rush but will also end up on the ground too often.
Run blocking: Known as an athletic pass protector, but is a strong blocker for the Badger run game. Has strong upper and lower body builds despite his height. Plays with leverage against stout defensive ends and tackles on the edge, can get under their pads and churn his legs to move them down or off the line. Effective combo blocker, gets a hand on a tackle and still manages to push ends out of the play on strong-side runs. Leans or bends at the waist to latch on at times, will get shed and lose his balance.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree, Cameron Heyward's big size at DE pretty much nullified his strength.
Jay's favorite line: "Dog, in due time"
Now he look at me, like "Damn, dog, you where I am"
A hip hop legend.
I think I died in an accident, cause this must be heaven.
Feel free to disagree...
but I am using multiple scouting reports and not my own opinion. Solder is the #1 OT prospect and Carimi will be #2.
I would prefer Carimi personally.
by Cracker Ball on Jan 30, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions

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