Players' Salaries for 2009 (or Another Reason to Hate Clayton)
by Kilgore on May 4, 2010 3:37 PM EDT
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PrintSo I was messing around on yahoo sports when I came across salary info for our Bucs in the 2009 season. Normally I don't think about players' salaries so much but some of the numbers were surprising to me.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/tam/roster
I checked these against another page and they seem to match up. Not sure how it all breaks down, if there are bonuses included and whatnot. I'm sure some of you can supply that information if it's relevant...
Below I've listed the highest paid player (still on our roster) based on position.
2009 Salaries
QB : Josh Freeman - $1,380,000 - no surprise here.
WR/TE: Michael Clayton - $7,506,760 - Wow. I knew he had an inflated contract but to see the number and know that he's making more money than Winslow ($5,176,760) and Caddy ($2,100,760) combined.... It just boggles my mind. [note: Antonio Bryant actually earned more than Clayton did in 2009 (AB got $9,890,760), but at least he had produced in the last few years.]
RB: Derrick Ward - $5,006,760 - I don't think he got a good chance to prove his worth last year as the running game never really got going and Caddy was just playing better than him. Would love to see him step it up and match Caddy, who by the way will be a free agent at the end of next year.
OL: Donald Penn - $2,797,200 - I'm a Penn fan and I think he deserves every penny AND an extension.
DL : Ryan Sims- $ 2,756,760 - Well, we all know he won't be at the top of this list next year... [Note: Hovan actually made more ($3,006,760).]
LB: Angelo Crowell- $2,756,240 - You tell me, is he really that much better than Ruud ($1,606,760)?
DB: Ronde (Methusalah) Barber- $3,006,760 - I'm sure nobody is shocked by this. [Just for note, Talib got $1,188,010 (seriously, you need that extra 10 dollars?). ]
K/P : ... - who cares?
Any thoughts or reactions? I was upset to see that Clayton makes so much (team's highest paid player behind Bryant last year!) when people who actually DO SOMETHING to help us win make so much less.
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Clayton cut
The front office wont sit bye and pay this guy that much $ to sit on the bench. He wont eveing be a 4th string next WR next season
It looks like these are the cap numbers
Meaning they include the pro-rated signing bonus. I’m fairly certain Ryan Sims’ base salary is lower, just like Ward’s and Clayton’s.
Also something that I haven’t seen mentioned why people aren’t getting extension is that the 30% rule has apparently handcuffed a lot of the front offices. That rule means that a player’s base salary cannot increase more than 30% in an uncapped year, so the only way to give people large contracts when they had rookie contracts before is to give them very large signing bonuses, something that front offices are obviously not willing to do.
I think you're right...
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Tampa-Bay-Buccaneers-Salaries
this one shows total salary (what I showed) and cap # which I’m assuming is the base… and Sims is indeed smaller as you said…
This makes me ill to read
Even though I had a general idea on these numbers, seeing some of them in print just makes your head spin
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Ouch!
Three of our highest paid position players are back-ups. I can only hope this changes when a new CBA gets worked out. Ruud, Penn, and Caddy will all demand hefty contracts to stay; I just pray the Glazers don’t cut bait with three of our best players because of dollars and non-cents.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
Ugh
Get rid of Clayton…Ward…Sims and Crowell…they’ve all been beaten out of their position…we’re wasting money
I would say we pretty much wasted about 14 Million
in these numbers alone last year.
Nothing clever to put here.
Cadillac worth the money more than Ward
Ward is 30 and didn’t do squat last year. I’ll spread the blame amongst him and the people calling plays.
$$$
Penn and Ruud are the only ones on this list worth that kind of $$.
I wouldn't say Freeman and Ronde
weren’t worth the money. Ronde had a very underrated year last year. Freeman is young, but that’s also the cost of drafting a potential franchise quarterback in the first round.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
Crazy lately??
How can you say that Ruud isn’t worth it? Justify yourself. I smell a debate comming on.
There is a reason why Ruud has not got a deal
why only Rah and Mark can tell you that but you can read between the lines
1 Like you said he has put in the work but has no deal , so that tells me that the team is still evaluating him putting him on the fence
2 Ruud said that he has had pressure on himself to become a better blitzer , this tells me that he is still trying to it in the scheme of things that Rah is trying to do
3 Ruud signed a 1 year deal just like Angelo Crowell I think that both of these guys are still being evaluated
There's a 4th reason
The 30% rule makes it a lot harder for teams to get realistic deals done. Though the Patrick Willis contract apparently showed a loophole, there’s still a lot of guaranteed money in that deal.
Ruud will want a long-term deal
But it’s hard for any NFL team to provide a long-term deal that the veteran values as salary increases in the contract can’t be aboe 30%. So everything has to be pumped into guaranteed money – and that’s something teams really don’t want to do.
Unless
your exactly what that team wants . Hearing this I seriously think that Ruud is missing something that Tampa is looking for
No one gets contracts with that much guaranteed money
No one. Not Peyton Manning, not Tom Brady, not Drew Brees, not even Lawrence Taylor in his heyday – no one. If Ruud isn’t getting a contract because of the 30% rule, that does not reflect on Ruud’s playing style.
But, as I said, the 49ers managed to find a way around it by deferring signing bonuses to later years with Patrick Willis. The Bucs see no need to do that as they have Ruud on a RFA contract.
by Sander on May 5, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
Key, you allow yourself to believe that performance is always tied into business decisions, when that’s just not the case in the NFL.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
Why not
IF you produce better than every one else you will get paid Haynseworth , Nate Clements , & Asante Samuel . If you offer what a team needs you will get paid Farve , Dunta Robinson , Michael Clayton , Pacman Jones . The NFL is a league of competition and the team with the most production wins
by keysersoze19 on May 6, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
True that... but not all NFLteams
have the same financial philosophies. Some reward more openly than others. Its about balancing merit and fiscal responsibilities.
Others are just cheap.
I agree but
A team in our situation will keep all players who fit their movement . After the draft the Clayton and Bryant was answered with Benn and Williams . Why beat around the bush with 1 of your best players if you don’t want him , Ruud is going through the same process as AB
There must be some interest in keeping him
as they didn’t seem to draft his replacement, unless Dakota moves inside.
All of that is anecdotal.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
Ruud is a fan favorite (which I don't understand why) so people will come to his defense.
But watching him get lost, running into the refs, slow reaction times, and being dragged down the field does not make him worth keeping much less making $7 million a year. Giving up 6-7 yards a carry falls on him, he’s supposed to make the read and make the tackle at the line, but that doesn’t happen. Yes the DL got man-handled but it’s still his responsibility to get to the line and make the tackle. He’s had a few years to improve but he hasn’t. He’s a good back up, but not a starter, I don’t want him here anymore, he’s had his chance.
Stay thirsty my friends.
by bucnut1 on May 5, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You have to be athletic to play Tampa 2 MLB
Ruud is not a bad player but he does not fit the system . A Tampa 2 linebacker drops into coverage almost every play you have to be athletic to get back to the line and make a play . That was a good assessment Bucnut1.
by keysersoze19 on May 5, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
???
Typically people refer to 2008 as his most successful year. Wasn’t that under a Tampa 2?
You also have a very misguided perception of the Mike LB in a T2. In fact, a Mike is NOT dropping into coverage on every play. His first step is toward the LOS.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
FML.
I had an extremely long reply to this explaining the Mikes role in a Tampa 2 and I accidentally deleted it. I will explain this further in a more in-depth piece on player roles in a Tampa 2.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
He is a good smart player
Ruud in the right D 3-4 or some other D that is geared towards his skills , he would be an all-pro . In our D he’s a misfit . The biggest difference in the Tampa 2 and Cover 2 is this
In each defense the Safeties are off the hash , in the cover 2 the safeties must control the middle , in the Tampa 2 the MLB drops back to the middle and he controls the middle . When there is a run that MLB has to fly back down the field . If we were playing the cover 2 than Ruud ability will not hinder the D , but we play the Tampa 2
by keysersoze19 on May 6, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Ruud would be a horrible waste in a 3-4.
The best place he fits is as a Mike in a 4-3 and probably one geared towards a T2. I will be completely shocked if he has another year like last year. I expect another 2008 year from him if we stick with the Tampa 2. He’s at his best when he has someone scraping blocks for him and he can flow to the ball. He can run in coverage, which we ask him to do. What he can’t do is shed blocks and scrape off blocks himself.
The Cover 2/Tampa 2 ask the linebackers to siagnose and flow and ask the DL to take the pressure off of the LBs. In a true T2, the MLB has to drop into the middle third, which Ruud can do surprisingly well. Sticking with a system that fits Ruud and Hayes should help alot in 2010.
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Yeeeeeeeep.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Put Ruud in Keith Brooking place
on Dallas team and Dallas will have the best D in the league
by keysersoze19 on May 7, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The mis-conception of the Tampa 2 stems from it being a pass-defense.
While some of that is true, it is schemed to stop the run as well. Linebackers are reading the offense. They are taking their first step towards the Line of Scrimmage. If it is a run, they are in position to make a play. Corners are also sitting in the flats to force outside runs back in. If linebackers are moving sideline to sideline, they are again in position to make plays. Quick OLBS in a T2 benefit a Mike more than requiring the Mike to be the fastest defender.
I could go on an on, but Ruud DOES fit in a T2 perfectly. He doesn’t lack the speed or recognition abilities to play in this system.
"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger
While that's true
Tampa 2 has never been as succesful against the run as it has been against the pass.
Different people and different version of the T2.
At least when Kiffen was here, they’d line up in the T2 and change out of it. They don’t exclusively run the T2 every play, they only show it.
And the reason we do have issues with the run is because our style of D is based on speed and getting to the ball, so our up front guys are on the small side.
Stay thirsty my friends.
They also said that in 2002
They said the Oakland run game was good enough to beat us, if we get to the ball then we stop the run
Oakland was not a running team, and they won't be as long as Al has say there.
We actually had some offense then, so us getting a head was a scary thing for other teams. Either way, we had an amazing defense that year.
Stay thirsty my friends.
yea
A Tampa 2 D that was good against the run, there are times when its not about running the Tampa 2 it’s about playing BUCBALL
Not really
31st against the run according to Football Outsiders, they allowed well over 100 yards/game that season. See: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2006.htm
The Colts defense is very dependent on their offense. If the offense gets ahead quickly then the opponents abandon the run, and the Colts get to play pass defense – something they’re very good at. If this doesn’t happen and teams stick to the run, the Colts struggle. This has been true since forever, it was true last year and it was extremely true in their 2006 campaign.
I did not say the whole year their run D was dominate
When December hit there was none around who could run on them go back and look at the numbers . The only way an offense benefits from a D is if they are a ball control team like Pittsburgh
I looked at the numbers, apparently you didn't
2006 season, right?
December 3, allowed 219 rushing yards by the Titans
December 10, allowed 375(!) rushing yards by the Jaguars
December 18, allowed 133 rushing yards by the Bengals
December 24, allowed 191 rushing yards by the Texans
December 31, allowed 150 rushing yards by the Dolphins
Now, they did stop the run well in the playoffs (but not in the Superbowl). But that’s 3 games, versus the other 17 in which they got completely gashed against the run. That doesn’t point to them being solid against the run at all, it points to those 3 games being fluky.
Playoffs is the only thing that matters
Good find I made a mistake I had crossed the 2005 and 2006 seasons with the Colts
To get to the playoffs you need to beat the regular season too
But sure, you got those two mixed up.
That’s a year the Colts stopped the run better – not consistently, but a lot better. However, they still weren’t near the top in run defense and their pass defense was still better. They were decent – they were not the best or near the best.
The key to their run-stopping when teams do run is Bob Sanders – a phenomenal safety in the run game who’s injured every other game.
Keysersoze, yes they have to be athletic, but still have to be smart and strong.
I question his decision making and his strength. Ruud isn’t a very big guy which helps with his speed, but it does not help with tackling. The concept of the T2 (base) is to get to the ball as fast as possible, and when a player can’t determine where the ball is fast enough, it really hurts, especially when it’s the MLB, the QB of the D. Ruud looked a lot better when he had Derrick Brooks playing next to him, but that’s never gonna happen again.
Stay thirsty my friends.
He looked good until December that year
In december that year he looked as good as Sabby . Ruud has average size for an MLB . Some people say he is better than Rey Lewis in coverage if you don’t believe me , look at the comments under the post The Deal with Ruud and Penn . His instincts is good enough , even though he is not that big he is still not that athletic
by keysersoze19 on May 6, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
But the guys listed are detrimental to their team
as is Willis . Do you think when its time to sign Freeman back ,Talib , or Davin Joseph when its time to sign these guys back , do you think they will have the problem Ruud is having I think not .
Maybe not
But you won’t know because that rule won’t be in effect then, so the situation won’t be comparable. The labor situation is making everything murky, and it also added the 30% rule. It’s not fair to say Ruud is not what they’re looking for, because there are so many external problems with giving him a deal.
No he would not
That’s what I keep telling you. The labor situation makes it a problem to seal deals because not only is it unclear what the situation will be a year from now, but also because it’s very hard to get realistic deals done. This goes for a lot of teams, not just the Bucs, and you simply cannot deduce that they don’t want Ruud for the future from the fact that he has no deals. There are too many external issues going on that make it hard for a deal to get done, even if they see Ruud as the future at MLB.
I feel like you’re just ignoring the facts to give it your own spin.
The facts is this
We signed Jones took on Brown contract and have plenty of money . Willis just signed a nice extension with no problem and the Saints just made Jahri Evans the richest guard ever so the rules only apply to us we have more cap space than the Saints and 49ers
Here are more facts
Willis is arguably the best linebacker in the league. He got a new contract that contained a lot of guaranteed money. A lot. Ruud can be our MLB of the future without being worth a contract given to the best LB in the league.
Evans also got an insane contract. Arguably the richest contract given to a guard ever.
And these are just two teams. There are 32 teams in the league, and most of them are not doing new contracts. But you’re just ignoring that because the idea that the Bucs don’t want Ruud fits your storyline better than the fact that getting new contracts done when there’s no CBA and that 30% rule is in effect is hard.
What about
the Dolphins , Bears , Jets , Giants . What you are saying is not logical , free agents will always get signed and if your team can’t do without you than you will have a deal
They do have a deal
They have 1 year deals. There is no pressure on the team to get a deal done because they’re restricted free agents. Hence, they don’t need to give them contracts that are going to be very hard to negotiate because of the labor
The problem is not present in the situations you mention, because you’re talking about people who already had very large contracts and hence there’s little problem as the 30% rule has no effect – they’re not getting contracts done that are that much more expensive than their already existing contracts.
Look, you can go on and continue to believe that the only reason the Bucs didn’t sign Ruud is because they don’t want him. But while that may be true, you’re ignoring an important part of the contract situation in the NFL and in effect just shutting yourself off from information.
Mixed Messages
I said that they are still evaluating him before they give him a long term deal . I always take in info and the info you gave is vital , I just don’t think that plays a part on why Tampa has not signed a key contributor and leader yet
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