Cannon Fodder for the offseason
by Buc Wild on May 26, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
Email
PrintIf you can't tell, I'm searching for a title for this quasi-column I am trying to put up every few days or weeks. I have no idea what to call it, how often it should be, or if it even generates in any interest. If you have any feedback on any of those thoughts, be sure to fire them my way in the comments section. Of course the main goal is to generate discussion amongst all of us Bucs fans, so without further ado, on to the wanderings of a football mind.
1) I'm not a big fan of coordinator turnover, especially on a young team, but this puts me in a difficult situation. I will of course support any and all members of the team as best I can, but I'm still not convinced that Olsen is the guy to get us going offensively. I wouldn't be surprised if Van Pelt starts to sneak some discussion as an OC either here or elsewhere. Olsen was brought in to be Freeman's mentor and that role changed from mentor to coordinator in the span of a few months. Call me crazy, but Freeman and the team need stability, so while I'm not a huge Olsen fan, I have to hope that he sticks just to avoid turnover. On defense it's a much different story. I'd love for Rah to continue with the defense as he is a Tampa Two disciple and understands both our players and the scheme. The trick will be if he can handle both defensive duties and head coaching duties. It's all or nothing with him. I'm not predicting a good or bad season (yet), but I see no scenario in which, if he's eve let go that he sticks around as DC
2) It seems there's a lot of chatter about how negative Bucs fans are. I will give you that some people will always see the glass as half empty, and that's their right, but given the 2009 season, it's hard for some people to be overly optimistic. That being said, I think the vibe around here, and for most Bucs fans is pretty neutral, until you talk about the Glazers. The owners seem to generate the most negative feedback with Morrinik being a close second. Fans here want to believe, we want a good team and good outcome, but the 3-13 season kind of beat them down. I don't know how some people can say that this is a site for negative people. Heck, I predicted a 6-10 season last year, which sounds bad, but when you look at the outcome, I was apparently huffing paint. We welcome any and all (properly presented) opinions here. If you think that Bucs fans are being too negative, chime in and show us the sunshine.
3) I've recently read various places on the internet that perhaps Tanard Jackson has peaked as a player. I say hogwash. He made a dumb mistake that resulted in a 4 game suspension and played with one of the worst safeties in the league last year and behind a defensive line that would have allowed my grandmother to run for 100 yards last year. I was thrilled with T-Jack's performance as a 4th round pick and continue to enjoy his play. He isn't the top at his position, but he can get there. To think that T-Jack is past his prime or will only go downhill sounds like people are searching for things to piss and moan about.
4) Pretend for a second that a 2011 season happens (i.e. no lockout). Even though we are a young team, we could be facing a drastically altered team at that point. Big name guy with a chance to be gone are Donald Penn, Cadillac Williams, Barrett Ruud, Ronde Barber, Michael Clayton, Davin Joseph, Tanard Jackson, and Jeremy Trueblood. That's what I came up with off the top of my head as either restricted free agents, possible cuts, possible retirement, and those who will be out of contract. Bigger list than I thought.
5) If you could have either a one year wonder team with a guaranteed Super Bowl win or a 6-7 year period of continued dominance with no guarantee of a Super Bowl, which would you take? Lame I know, but I'm curious as to the makeup of our fanbase.
Buc 'Em, the floor is yours.
42 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
1) I agree with you on Olsen, but I’d rather see him go and get the right guy in here.
2) I know I’m labeled as a negative one, but I’m just realistic. It’s gonna take years to get better, not one draft class alone can do it. I’m still not convinced we have the right guys to build this team the right way.
3) I agree with you 100% about Tanard Jackson.
4) It’s all about the new CBA, and something tells me the players are gonna get shafted with the lack of signings by all teams.
5) I’d take the Super Bowl, cause nothing can beat the feeling of winning it all. We didn’t do well the season after we won it all, but I was still buzzing from the big game win. Plus, we’re used to losing down here, so I’d take the Super Bowl win.
Stay thirsty my friends.
I would choose the 6-7 year run every time...
fielding a very competitive team is what most fans long for. A SB victory is great… but all the discussions, the trash talk and hard fought games when the outcome is truly in question is what makes rooting for an NFL team during the season fun.
At least for me it is.
The problems with that CB is that when you look back, you think about the teams that won the SB, not the teams that fizzled out in the playoffs.
The years we lost to the Rams and Eagles in the playoffs, those seasons don’t mean anything because we failed to win the Super Bowl, the only goal there is. Not as satisfying IMO.
Stay thirsty my friends.
I see your point...
but I personally don’t like looking backward to find some pride in my team. I prefer consistency over a flash in the pan, but that is just me. Not taking anything away from winning a Superbowl.
by Cracker Ball on May 26, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Negative
Those years were depressing but greatly remembered. Losing 6-3 and winning 13-7 or whatever those scores were was just great times! Maybe mainstream people only remember Super Bowl victories, but the actual fan of a team remembers all the steps of the journey, and to be honest, I can remember the Eagle games that we lost in those god forsaken cold weather games more vividly than the Raiders thrashing in the SB. Finally beating the Eagles was that much more exhilarating because of the hardships on the way.
Well if you enjoy losing in the playoffs every year, that's your bizz. That's not how I like it.
Stay thirsty my friends.
If the question is...
would you rather have one super bowl guaranteed and 5-6 years of futile performance, or 6-7 years of consistently making the playoffs with a shot at a Super Bowl, I’m taking the latter.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 26, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure the fans of Buffalo, San Diego, Philadelphia, and Minnesota will agree with me.
Second, third, fourth best sucks. Winning every season is nice, but nothing beats winning the championship and being fine with not winning it is confusing.
Stay thirsty my friends.
By saying you prefer winning a Super Bowl and then sucking for years
You’re saying that you prefer one really winning season with a lot of sucky seasons over a steady performance with a chance at that one winning season.
In other words, one winning season is good enough for you.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Winning championships is the only reason to play at all.
Stay thirsty my friends.
Obviously, we all want to have the best of both worlds.
Ideally we need to have a large window of opportunity to work with. That can be achieved with young, talented players.
I totally agree.
I’d rather have a team that makes the playoffs year after year than a team that only wins one SB and then goes into long rebuilding mode.
Obviously I’d like to win the SB too.
1) This will be a do or die year for Olson. He did get a little better towards the end of the season, with a whole offseason to install his plan, and with potential WR’s who knows, maybe it won’t be so bad.
2) Don’t understand the complaint of the record last year. We were only expected to win 4 games and we were around that, 1 or 2 more wins would’ve been nice though. My only complaint is the circus we had with the coordinators. Only created havoc and gave the players no comfort zone with the scheme. Their was alot of talk about the players bt I can’t blamet hem with all the differentthings they were asked to do. Team did start playing better near the end of the season, thanks to a somewhat stable scheme. With the stable offseason it only inspires the optimistic of good things which I find myself pushing for 9 wins next year which could happen, will it happen? who knows.
3) Agree with you about Tanard. But this also goes with other players that have taken heat this offseason. Most bashed on was probably the O line which had unrealistic expectations last year with all the different demands they had with the different schemes.
4) Be nice to lock some players down, but once the new cap is in place it’s nice to know we have money to pllay with.
5) Super Bowl all the way. It’s what you play for, it’s what inspires the competition to play.
Buc Wild's Cannon Fodder would probably be the best name I can think of.
1.) I say this is Olsen’s make or break year. He has a full offseason entire offense ready with a list of new acquired weapons to use. His own faith is in his hands.
2.) I find some fans unreasonably negative. But that has declined some since our draft from my observations. I think a large part of the fan base is in the “Wait and See” category. So, the first 2-5 games will be important in convincing the fan base one way or another. Especially the Carolina and Saints games.
3.) Yea, Jackson is far from done. Him and Talib should play tricks on opposing QBs minds for years to come. Pending they stay out of trouble.
4.) Hoping we settle things with Penn and Rudd this year, for better or for worse. Then we can deal with Joseph, Jackson, and the one year tenders next.
5.) 6-7 year run obviously, but a Cinderella kind of run would give the fans a spark, give the higher ups evidence of success, and provide stability all around. So ideally, a surprising playoff run (not necessarily to the Super Bowl), followed by a rise to dominance.
Great question about the Super Bowl
Man…….I dunno. I think I’d take the Super Bowl if its guaranteed. Its so hard to get over the top even as a perennial contender, as San Diego and Philly have showm.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
by Craig T on May 26, 2010 1:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
My take
1) Olsen needs to show improvements this year. Last year was hard to judge with so much turmoil. When evaluating the coach we need to separate that from the failures of individual players. It is not Olsen’s fault for Clayton dropping a ball, but we need to make sure we evaluate fairly based on the things he can control.
2) Most Buc fans on here and in general are on the negative side. BTW, I predicted 4 wins last year.
3) Jackson is fine.
4) Most teams are doing the same thing. If we lose our guys, other teams will be losing theirs, and there will be a giant swap when things get resolved. I doubt that will happen, and I expect that eventually everyone that they want will be retained.
5) Your question was 6-7 good seasons without a guaranty of a Super Bowl victory, or a guaranteed SB victory. I would take the 6-7 good seasons with a shot at the SB. I had a lot of fun watching the Bucs play under Dungy. Less bitching on Buc’Em if we are an 11-5 team for 6 years and maybe win a SB. Well I may be wrong about that, some just like to bitch.
Addressing the negativity...
I don’t hear a lot of people in “public” talking about how awful the Bucs are going to be. To take the time to register for an account, and then actually spend time commenting takes someone who is a very passionate fan. It does seem that maybe because there aren’t as many comments per story as say DRaysBay, that the opinions of the ultrapassionate fans come through more clearly than they would elsewhere. I think there are a few very passionate commenters here making the most comments, and they are extreme in their views of the Bucs. I would imagine that the most optimistic scenario that most of us have is for the Bucs to win 6-8 games this year. I would consider that a negative outlook on the team. Some commenters have much worse outlook for the team, which in turn makes the negative to moderate fans think that the other fans are even more negative.
Boom. Outta Here.
I would imagine that the most optimistic scenario that most of us have is for the Bucs to win 6-8 games this year. I would consider that a negative outlook on the team.
I think it’s pretty realistic. Not necessarily positive or negative.
I think I am one of the most optimistic, and realistic people on here
I think we will have a successful year if we win 6 games. I picked 6-10 to be our record in an earlier post this year. 8-8 would be HUGE!! Where I differ from most of who I would consider pessimists or negative posters is regarding Raheem and Dominik. I think they have shown some significant positives, and think they have a good chance at success in Tampa. I don’t turn a blind eye to their mistakes, but I am more willing to think they will learn from them, and their positives will outweigh their mistakes. I think we are heading in the right direction, and the Glazers are businessmen who want to win and make money, not just cheap bastards who eat fan’s children for breakfast. I also believe we are genuinely trying to build most of the team through the draft, and it is a good strategy that will pay off for the patient fan.
I agree
I don’t think Raheem is a great coach but I am appreciative of his decision to bring in Josh Freeman. Now, if Freeman has a great season, obviously it will make Raheem look that much better.
Dominik had a great draft and has set us up nicely for the future. I haven’t agreed with all of his decisions but I’m not going to waste my time bashing a GM that has clearly laid out his plans for building through the draft. It’s too early to say if his plan is going to work or not.
Winning 6 games would have to be considered
a positive season for us, since we have added 3 more wins to the bottom line. Its far from ideal, but considering all the personnel moves and tinkering, its really about all you could realistically hope for. I will be very surprised if we do, as I personally think 6 is too high. We shall see…
by Cracker Ball on May 26, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
8 is ideal in my book.
If we got our act together sooner, we could of had 4 or 5 wins last year. So the magic number should be 8 with a considerably easier schedule.
I have felt the same thing about managment.
Many mistakes last year but less as the year wore on and a very positive off-season so far.
I don’t think a winning season next year would be very realistic with so many rookies and unproven guys. I do think we could be sniffing the playoffs next year.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on May 26, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
that’s what I meant “the most optimistic amongst us” not “the most optimistic scenario”.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 26, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel the same way about Rah and Dom...
it would be careless to make a decision about their futures with team after one season.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on May 26, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that honestly this is the perspective of most of the fans here
And most of the disagreement stems from the perspective on whether the coaches as is can get us further than that or not in later years.
Now that we got 1 Super Bowl...
I’d take being a perennial contender. That would change if it takes us another 25 years to get there though.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
I would want
6-7 year period of continued dominance with no guarantee of a Super Bowl
Draft Laron Byrd now!!!
Master Phinja, accepting anybody to the clan!!!
IT SIMPLY IS ALL ABOUT THE U!!!
"You wanna get high man? Does howdy doody have wooden balls?"
- Cheech & Chong - Up in Smoke -
I particularly like points 1,4 and 5
1) Stability is a good thing, and I would hope the coaching staff we have now is the one we end the 2010 season with. Every thing that is in place for the Bucs personnel wise, are compliments to their plan of attack in building this team
4) If a lockout does not happen, all those guys who we have to sign back will not be back, If their is a player of concern to the Bucs production wise, I think they will not waste the money and we will see them aggressive in free agency.
5) This is a trick question there is no winning in this situation, this is 1 question I can not begin to think of an answer. Win 1 year and thats it or dominate for 6-7 years with no ring?No matter what you are in a lose lose
No one’s saying there’s no ring, you’re just not guaranteed one.
I’ll go back to my Nebraska roots on this question as well…domination over a period of years, in retrospect, feels a hell of a lot better than any single national championship.
I think the worst I’ve ever felt about any sporting event was the 1994 Orange Bowl when Byron Bennett missed the game winning field goal. I threw myself in a snowdrift and laid there for a long while (hey, I was 13 at the time).
But we made it back three of the next four years and won championships.
I can remember growing up, watching my favorite team dominate competition from the age of 4 to 21. Best sports childhood ever (being an avid Braves fan helped as well). Baseball’s my favorite sport, but my favorite team will always be Nebraska because I was able to watch them win every Saturday for approximately 15 years.
When I think of Nebraska football today, sure, I’d love to win another championship. But far more important to me and the rest of the fan base is returning to that tradition of winning, week-in and week-out.
If you put all your hopes in one game, you’re going to be left disappointed more often than not. But when you build a tradition of winning, the only time you find yourself disappointed is when your team doesn’t play to its potential.
So, from my perspective, build a tradition first. Make excellence a journey instead of a flash in the pan. And savor it while it lasts, because eventually Bill Callahan will come and fuck all your hopes and dreams.
-C
by cthabeerman on May 27, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
My apologies...
I will refrain from the profanity from here on out. Different blogs have different rules and I peruse every National League team’s SB blog (tho post on only a couple). Sometimes I forget the regulations of each and I do tend to have a potty mouth at times.
-C
by cthabeerman on May 28, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting you didn't address point 2.
As someone that seems to view life through pewter tinted spectacles thought you might have had something to say on that one!
Glass Half Full
Addressing the points in a slightly different order…..
2. No I don’t think Bucs fans are particularly negative. Plenty of viewpoints, mostly argued in a friendly articulate manner and views are generally respected. I hate the comments to articles on ESPN and FOX where you get a load of “Dumba$$” comments because you think differently to someone else. I’d like to think I look for the positive, and I don’t get disappointed if the team doesn’t live up to expectations because at least I had something positive to look forward to. I get mad if I don’t see effort being put in, and I curse bad decisions, but I can forgive bad decisions if they’re learned from.
1. Olsen wasn’t OC this time last year. Jags was fired on the eve of the season – no time to put your own offense in. This season we’ll see what Olsen’s offense will look like and he can be judged on it at the end of the season. He still has a few challenges to show he can scheme – OL to punch holes for the running game, inexperience at WR. I think it will be a season of steady improvement – and that may not (yet) translate into wins, some tough games in the run in and I don’t like the early bye week – that could actually hurt later in the season.
4. Most teams will be in the same boat. I’d like to see Penn locked up now (if they can do a deal that isn’t all guaranteed money) and the team to start negotiating with Joseph and Jackson. Ruud’s situation should be addressed at the end of the year to give him chance to prove himself again. I don’t see anyone offering Caddy a big contract because of his knees and age, he should be fairly cheap to resign.
5. Interesting question. Looking at some of the comments on the posts about NY getting the 2014 SB folks recognise that the big game is becoming more about NFL Inc promoting itself rather than a game that crowns the best team in the league. The last few years there’s been more about the halftime show than the teams. Personally I like outdoor games and think that for Northern stadia to get a SB they should have to have retractable roofs (in case the weather is too bad and the game needs to be in a dome). I prefer season after season of a good team rather than a one season wonder because people do remember good teams that didn’t win or get to the big game. Plenty of folks on here already mentioned the Eagles and Bills and what about the Purple People Eaters and Air Coryell in the late 70s? They didn’t win anything, but they ain’t forgotten either.
my thoughts
i think we need to keep these coaches around. We all saw what happened to Jason Campbell with all the coaches over the years, please lets not have Freeman experience the same thing.
We also NEED to kep our core guys, when we kept our core last time we had a nice run and a Super Bowl.
I’d take 6-7 years of great play, with no super bowl gaurantee. Last year I probably would have gone with the super bowl, but the 3-13 season has changed my mind.
super bowl..
The way I see it we have already had our one year wonder team, (thanks to Mr. Tony Dungy)it was all over too soon, and everyone wonders if we can do it again to prove we really are worthy.If I had my choice Domination over a period of ten years and possibly a super bowl….Packers,Cowboys,Steelers.49ers and the New England Patriots.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Tiquan Underwood, cut on Super Bowl eve, is a Patriot again
- Woman at Giants Super Bowl parade can’t wait to see Mark Sanchez (video)
- Bradying is sweeping the nation (for the next 48 hours or so)
- Knowshon Moreno charged with DUI; has a license plate that reads ‘SAUCED’
- Giants fan who won $50,000 on Super Bowl safety will donate winnings to charity
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
