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Around SBN: In Crunch Time, Spurs Don't Change Their Game

Time to say "Bye Bye" to J.J.

When you were a little kid, did you ever have a toy that you liked, but you just didn't like it as much as another toy?  Or did you have a friend that you talked to once in awhile, only you found yourself always looking for a reason to not hang out with them?  Seems we've all had instances where some idea/object seemed like a good idea, a good fit, but it was never quite good enough to crack our rotation.  Well, for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, that item happens to be Josh Johnson.

The quick background on Johnson (or J.J. as we call him) is this.  A 5th round pick out of the University of San Diego, he was nabbed as a project quarterback by none other than the supposed quarterback guru himself, Jon Gruden.  It was made evident to anyone and everyone that JJ was not the QB now (this back in 2008) but was a future guy.  Gruden saw an accurate passer who had enough mobility to cause some issues for NFL defenses.  I imagine Gruden salivated at going from 2008 Jeff Garcia, who was about 73 years old that year, to a younger, bigger-armed version of Garcia in 20-something JJ.  Johnson didn't touch the field in 2008 which was what we expected.  We heard about him through practices and camps and were led to believe that he would one day be our starter.

But an unforeseen detour happened at the end of the 2008 season.  Gruden was given the pink slip, Raheem Morris was hired, Mark Dominik promoted, and by the time the 2009 draft rolled around, Josh Freeman was king of the land, JJ was relegated to the bench and the once bright star of Johnson had substantially faded.  Then Leftwich was brought in and though JJ was still second string due to the "sit and develop" mindset with Freeman, it was clear the reins would be handed to Freeman when he was ready, not JJ.

As the Bucs ambled out of the gates and Leftwich was being beaten to a bloody stump of a quarterback, the cries for Johnson, or really, anyone other than Leftwich were heard.  Johnson got into his first NFL game in a shut out against the Giants, and though he didn't engineer any points, he did move the ball well.  But he was two weeks away from sealing his fate.

Star-divide

Sitting on a winless team, JJ was set to make his first home start against the Eagles at home.  If you don't know, the Eagles have always been blitz happy.  Well, with a young, inexperienced QB making his first start with no real playmakers around him, the Eagles dialed up an insane number of blitzes.  Poor JJ was left throwing off his back foot all game as time and time again, green jerseys came crashing down on him.  With no help from anyone else, JJ ran around in the backfield, got creamed and sealed his fate.  An unfortunate turn, but one that couldn't be avoided given the Bucs didn't want to throw supposed franchise saver Freeman in the same situation.

A few games later, after a lackluster team performance, Freeman was brought in, and the rest is history.  Johnson certainly didn't perform well on the field, but was not much worse than the other two starters that took the field, and one could argue that he, JJ, faced the tougher defenses.

But it is more of what happened off the field that seems to have stamped Johnson's ticket out of Tampa Bay.  After being alluded to as a career backup by head coach Raheem Morris in 2009, which whether you take it as good or bad, still leaves the fact that Johnson will not get a chance to shine in Tampa Bay.  Then, just a few days ago, OC Greg Olsen came out and talked about Johnson, even going so far to compare him to Snead and Carpenter saying they were all on a level playing field and development wise, none of the three were ahead of the other.

Well, I get the insinuation, but Johnson has two full years in the league and a fwe games under his belt.  You can talk to 100 Bucs fans and ask about Morris' quote and Olsen's and probably come back with a 50/50 split on whether it's coach talk, a cheap shot at JJ, or another form of negative reinforcement to the 2008 draft pick.  The point being, Johnson clearly has little to no value for our team.  He has been relegated to the bench and doesn't appear to be any further along than his rookie counterpart.  At this point it may be best for the team to trade away JJ for a new clipboard or whatever else they can get for him. 

I like JJ and think he has some of the tools to be successful.  He's been lauded by anyone who has ever coached him as a smart player with a knack for hard work and studious habits.  He has the physical skills necessary, but we have yet to see him unleash those in live action, though I'd argue the supporting cast has a lot to do with that.  But with the die being cast on his future, there are several teams who last year made inquiries about JJ.  Maybe it's time to pick up the phone and return those calls.  With no clear cut advantage comign in as a number two quarterback, and a propensity for taking it on the chin from his coaches in the media, it seems we have reached a point where both parties may be best served to shake hands and part.

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Probably a minority here...

but I like JJ as a backup. Not only do I think he can be solid, he knows the locker room and provides some consistency. While he may not be far ahead of one of the rookies, I don’t see why having two rookies on our team is any more beneficial (even in the long run).

However, this article is not about whether we like him. It’s about whether he will be gone. This I can’t really argue with. If he has any trade value at all, I see no reason why it wouldn’t happen.

"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger

by MNeilson on May 13, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I would rather he stay than two rookies as backups also.

But from his perspective, and the team’s, he (JJ) has been on the wrong end of some key decisions and words. He clearly won’t get a chance to play here, barring injury, all the coaches here believe he is no more than a backup, why not try to trade him to a team that wants a young QB. The guy’s only opportunity to play came on one of the worst teams to roll through Tampa in awhile, and we act like he is terrible when no other QB put up much better numbers. I just don’t see him staying here given what has transpired.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on May 13, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

"barring injury"

I think a good backup is essential in the NFL. Your point that he won’t get a chance to play barring injury is valid, but injuries are so likely, he will probably play at least some. If we plan on being a long term competitive team I would like to keep him as a back up. I don’t really think he is going to flourish as a starter anywhere else. Raheem was probably right saying he will be a very good backup throughout his career, though he should not have said it aloud.

by terp12 on May 13, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that backups are vital, but let me pose this purely speculative question.

Would you rather have JJ as your backup with limited experience and really no chance to shine or would you rather have a veteran/other backup from free agency and a 6th or 7th rounder that we could fetch for JJ? JJ does provide value, and I think if he’s on the field or had been in 2009 on a decent team, we could have made a market for him.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on May 13, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really, I don't know of a better backup that would be available, and a 6th or 7th rounder is nearly meaningless.

I thought Josh played ok considering the team surrounding him. I would feel better with him coming in for a game or two if Freeman goes down. We are building a decent team IMO, and Josh could give us a chance at winning if he is needed. That is the unfortunate roll of the backup in the NFL. They have to be good, but aren’t quite good enough. Hell, you never know, Freeman could break a leg in game one and JJ plays the entire year. (PLEASE GOD, DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN).

by terp12 on May 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Johnson

I think he showed last year that he can play, but only if he keeps calm under pressure – and he showed that that’s not something he can do right now. If he can develop that calmness in the pocket, then I think he’ll be fine eventually.

by Sander on May 13, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I say let him go....

I hate when teams or even jobs in general have a person who shows up to work, works hard and is thrown under the bus because of the team’s (company’s) shortcomings. I seriously doubt many people would have won in the situation JJ was tossed into last year.
He went from almost no reps in practice from training camp and to backup when they shipped off Luke to starter. No knock on Josh Freeman but he didn’t fare much better and he has been given the keys to the franchise and already has more experience than Josh Johnson. So for them to write off Johnson so quick, even as a backup, seems sad. I see if Johnson had a 6 pick game or one of those Jake Delhomme/Jamarcus Russell efforts. But hey let em roll with Carpenter or Snead. I’d take a mobile and accurate guy over a “Big, Good Looking Kid with a Big Arm” with no accuracy or pocket presence…..cough cough Snead.

by Joe Grizzly on May 13, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Buc Wild...

just a thought, but could Olsen be saying that hey are all on the same level because he is installing his own offense? Obviously, Freeman is the starter, but wouldn’t these guys be on the same level in the new offense?

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

It's possible, but I read it different than than.

Here is the quote from the TBO article (Olsen is the one speaking here)

The good thing is we have two younger players in Josh Johnson and Rudy Carpenter that aren’t that much older than him and haven’t been in the league that long, so development wise, they shouldn’t be much further along," Bucs offensive coordinator Greg Olson said. “He has an opportunity to come in and compete with those guys as opposed to a four-, five-, six-, 10-year vet guy. He should be on equal footing with those guys.”

Nothing about that tells me he is referring to his offense, but more the development process of any quarterback or player. The last sentence pretty much shows he is talking about overall development not particular to one offense.

Let me be clear in that I’m not saying I dont like JJ or think we should trade him. As with any player, if the right offer is there, then absolutely (well, except Cadillac, but you guys already knew that). I just think his value to the team may be more what he can fetch than 1.3 games every year. My article is more on the path JJ was and is on.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on May 13, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess developmentally...

Carpenter and Snead could be further along when they came into the league (Carpenter is actually a month older than JJ). Snead obviously has played at the highest level of the three and was thought well off before this previous season. I would say that before this last season, most people would think that Jevan Snead would be able to come in and beat out a JJ or Carpenter. I think what Olson is saying is that Snead wouldn’t have that opportunity if they had someone like Leftwich or Sage Rosenfels, someone of that ilk.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone was so excited to see Johnson get on the field last year.

The Philly game was also his best game offensively. The real problem was his propensity for taking sacks, and turning the ball over. As Sander said, he just doesn’t seem comfortable back there. I would also say that I thought Lefty was a much better option at #2 than JJ. I think it is a big mistake to go into the season with only 12 starts on the entire QB depth chart.

"Football is not a game but a religion, a metaphysical island of fundamental truth in a highly verbalized, disguised society, a throwback of 30,000 generations of anthropological time." ~ Arnold Mandell

by LeeCaz on May 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

It would be nice to have an experienced QB behind Freeman

should something happen. Snead was a great pick-up after the draft, and with some additional development, could really turn into something special. I would like to see the Bucs sign someone like Marc Bulger to come in and assist with the development of the young guns. He is old enough to know how to do it, and young enough to still be able to apply it if called upon.

JJ deserves his shot, but it won’t happen here with Freeman as the starter. Send him somewhere he can compete for a starting job, while he still has some trade value. Simply cutting him gives us nothing in return.

by Cracker Ball on May 13, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

How surprising!

You want some “good” white quarterbacks. Please tell us all about the greatness of Mike Alstott and future HOFer John Lynch

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you reading the same comment we are?

"Football is not a game but a religion, a metaphysical island of fundamental truth in a highly verbalized, disguised society, a throwback of 30,000 generations of anthropological time." ~ Arnold Mandell

by LeeCaz on May 13, 2010 5:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No...

I called one guy’s comment racist.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hoping JJ finds the chance to compete

for a starting job somewhere else is racist?

Wow, what they’re teaching these 8th graders in school is something else.

by Cracker Ball on May 13, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are taking it out in the wrong place

I have worked with a ton of people that name every Buc player that was white and laud them like they should all be HOF’s or we would be better off if we had more white guys. But Cracker’s comments were not that, if it was then we would have said to ship Freeman along with JJ.

by ronnydobbs on May 13, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your right this isn't the place...

I should have left it in the other post where he was making the racist comments about Raheem.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on May 13, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see us letting go of JJ this year

because he is the 2nd most experienced QB in terms of game starts/plays we have on roster right now. I think the main reason why the Bucs haven’t tried to get another Veteran QB in here is because they have faith in JJ as the back-up present and future. I think they bought in Snead to push for that #3 spot and possibly compete with JJ for the backup job in the future but for the 2010 season, I think JJ easily goes in as the #2 QB on roster.

"I've got nothing to prove,"- Warren Sapp

by ReaderM on May 13, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I always liked JJ

I always thought though we could use him as like a WR who could pass, maybe a few trick plays…idk i hope he ends up backing someone

by shadowchicken on May 13, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Hopefully

we won’t have to use our backup QBs due to injury next year

by keysersoze19 on May 14, 2010 1:54 AM EDT reply actions  

A team should plan

like you will have to. Find the best chance to win. Someone that can hopefully do more for the team than just carry a clipboard.

by Cracker Ball on May 14, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Say goodbye to J.J. because Olsen said that developmentally Snead is on par with he and Carpenter ? I see that as coach talk to prop up the choice to sign him. I don’t see Snead challenging Johnson this year, nor do I read into that any desire from the staff for Snead to do so. Johnson didn’t play in ‘08, and got very limited preseason reps in ’09. He started three games last year, but he often looked in over his head (albeit not totally his fault with the lack of preparation). Johnson is still a very raw QB. I think Olsen’s comments speak more to that than some desire to ship him out of town.

I know people like Johnson. So do I. But we need to take the homer goggles off and look at this from a football POV. You are Morris and Dominik. You look at your roster, and you know Luke MCown and Byron Leftwich ain’t gonna cut it long-term. The only other option you have is a 2nd year, 5th round draft pick from a division 2 school who didn’t play a down of football the previous year and was drafted by the previous coach. Who in their right mind is going to look at that guy and say “Yup, he’s our future. Let’s build around that.” They had to draft Freeman and they had to make him the future. So even if Johnson turns out to be just as good as Freeman, they did the right thing. It sucks for Johnson, but that’s the nature of the game.

by cbwx on May 14, 2010 8:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Johnson has almost zero chance to succeed here.

The Bucs aren’t playing him over Freeman, and if/when JJ does get in the game, only one of two things can happen. He plays well only to be sat back down when Freeman is back or he plays mediocre to poorly and he gets crucified as being terrible. This is due to this (and the team’s) performance last year. The high hopes are gone from the fans. The coaches seem no more comfortable with him than any other guy. McCown, Leftwich, or any other guy would and could be fine in the backup role. I just don’t see where JJ comes out ahead. He absolutely is stuck here unless the team moves him and I expect him to perform well in his role, but it doesn’t mean I’m not rooting for him to get moved to a team where he has a chance. We need competent backups, which I think he is, just difficult to root for himt o stay here given his path thus far. Seems like he deserves a bit more.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on May 14, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

What I meant...

was that I think JJ does deserve a chance to start. It clearly won’t be here. We can help both sides of this by:

A) Trading JJ to a team that wants him AND can offer him a chance to develop and eventually start. We would get something in return and he would get the chance he deserves. Win/win.

B) Bringing in an older, more experienced veteran willing to accept the back-up position. This will aid in Freemans development AND give us a better chance to compete should Freeman go down.

It was actually a pro-JJ comment. He just wouldn’t be here anymore.

by Cracker Ball on May 14, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just wanted to point out

that JJ actually started four games last year. Wash, Philly, Carolina, and New England. Not that it adds or takes away anything from your point, but those are four very different defenses and Johnson struggled vs all of them.

"Football is not a game but a religion, a metaphysical island of fundamental truth in a highly verbalized, disguised society, a throwback of 30,000 generations of anthropological time." ~ Arnold Mandell

by LeeCaz on May 14, 2010 10:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So did Freeman.

"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger

by MNeilson on May 14, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

When did I ever say Freeman did not struggle?

"Football is not a game but a religion, a metaphysical island of fundamental truth in a highly verbalized, disguised society, a throwback of 30,000 generations of anthropological time." ~ Arnold Mandell

by LeeCaz on May 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I wasn't arguing with you.

I was simply pointing out that JJ wasn’t the only QB to struggle on our roster.

"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger

by MNeilson on May 15, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

So did Freeman

If you couldn’t see a difference in the way Freeman ran the offense and the way Johnson did then I’m sorry, but you are viewing the world through J.J. colored glasses.

Let me start buy reiterating that I like both the Josh’s. I think Johnson will be a starter somewhere at some point in the NFL. But based on last season, Freeman looked the part far more than Johnson. Freeman showed more poise, confidence, and fire. He also showed more of a willingness to make the tougher throws. Johnson looked far more timid and unsure of himself.

by cbwx on May 14, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Poise, Confidence and Fire

never showed up on the stat sheet unfortunately. The problem is that the only thing people attribute to Freeman as doing right last year is showing “poise.” It’s an unmeasurable.

I was simply pointing out that JJ wasn’t alone in his struggles. In NO WAY did I ever say that Johnson is better or has more potential than Freeman.

"I'm not saying this is a blowout, but updated NBA schedule has ' * - if necessary' next to Games 3 and 4." John Hollinger

by MNeilson on May 15, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lets also look at who JJ had to play in his first two games.

Washington and Philly. Not exactly easy D’s. Then lets factor in that while Freeman played good, he was giftwrapped some early situations. Long kick returns, turnovers secured by our defense setting him up at the 20. And credit to Freeman for making those situations pay off, but while everyone says how great Freeman looked against GB (and he made some good throws/reads in that game), he was also given the luxury of starting inside the 20 twice and had a special teams TD and a defensive TD to help him. I don’t think JJ ever got that support.

I don’t think JJ should necessarily be starting over Freeman, but I also dont think we should cast him aside and say he sucks and laud Freeman at the same time.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on May 17, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I think special teams were the reason for 2 of our wins, the Seattle win is the only one I can’t put on special teams.
I think the big difference between Freeman and Johnson was the ability to stay calm on the field, really. I think Johnson has a lot of talent, but he didn’t seem to be anywhere near the leader and calm presence that Freeman was.

by Sander on May 17, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

JJ=Willie Beamen

All you fools will be mighty sad when he ends up being a stud somewhere else. JJ never got a fair shot and was casted off from Day 1.

by DonFausto on May 18, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

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