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Around SBN: Which Players Will Join The 3,000-Hit Club?

Dominik takes first step in silencing critics

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The 2010 draft has come and gone.  Most of the draft pundits agree that the Bucs had a successful and productive draft, going not only for need, but providing value to the franchise.  Granted, none of us, none of the draft "experts", and none of the coaches will truly know how well any team drafted for several years.  The initial responses have been positive, now we have to hope the coaching and performance of these picks is on par with the value provided.

Mark Dominik went into the 2010 offseason as a man under fire.  With a 3-13 team that was devoid of talent at many positions, there were cries for him to be a one and done general manager.  When free agency rolled around and he announced that the Bucs would not be participants in the spending sweepstakes, the chatter for his ousting grew.  Then the Bucs left Antonio Bryant walk, failed to trade for any of the big name wide receivers, while keeping dead weight (I'm looking at you Clayton) on the roster.  This led to an all out assault on Dominik and his supposed inability to craft a team. 

All along, Dominik talked about the draft, how deep it was, how we had more picks than anyone else (tied with the Patriots at 12), and that we wanted to get younger and build through a process where talent was widely available and scouting, nto dollars would determine the winner.  

Star-divide

As the draft unfolded, things started to fall into place.  Bradford went #1 overall, guaranteeing the Bucs a potential franchise changing defensive tackle.  As Suh went off the board, I inched to the front of my seat, hopeful that the name I wanted to hear would be announced.  As Goodell announced the pick, I watched as McCoy's head sunk, his eyes filled with tears.  Not a reaction of disgust, but of a dream reached.  While I did without the tears, I was in the same boat as McCoy, ecstatic to have him become part of our franchise.  There would be no second guessing, no "what if" scenarios played out by Bucs fans, Dominik had made the pick that anyone of us would make.

As the second round started to unfold a night later, I wondered which direction we would go.  I was hopeful wide receiver would be in the mix.  Dominik surely had read my article on how bad our defensive line was in 2009 as he selected Price with our first 2nd rounder.  At first, a few people scratched their heads, but eventually, people began to see the light.  A first round talent in the second round at a huge position of need in which we really had no starters in 2009.  We instantly go into 2010 with a trio of McCoy, Miller and Price as opposed to Miller, Hovan and any other guy.  I'd say that's an upgrade.

The trade up for the 39th pick caught my interest.  Who did we give up?  What would we use the pick on?  I was hoping we would go wide receiver, and though he went a different direction (and a better one the more I think about it), Dominik obliged and took Benn off the board. 

This theme continued through the draft.  Pick after pick, we addressed need with talented individuals.  We took a leap of faith on Mike Williams, which brought some raised eyebrows.  Look at it this way.  If the guy pans out, we got an absolute steal.  If he doesn't, we lost a 4th rounder.  Sure there was other talent available in the 4th round we could have taken, but this guy helps at a HUGE position of need, and with the proper due diligence being done, became a logical pick.

I left the draft weekend feeling quite enamored with our draft.  I haven't felt that way about all of our drafts, but this seems to be a big step in the right direction.  In five years, we may look back and see that Dominik went 0 for 2010 or maybe he hits on every pick.  There will be hindsight analysis done no matter what the outcome.  But at first glance, Dominik has put his fingers to his lips and told the collective Tampa Bay area to "sshhh, give us time".  I may not have agreed with the free agency moves (or lack thereof), but I'm willing to see how this draft turns out.  A lot of us said this was a huge draft for a franchise, and a determining factor in how this team would progress over the next 3-5 years.  We don't know now, but it seems we avoided burying the franchise, and could begin re-shaping our team.

Morris, Olson, Freeman.......it's your turn now.

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If he was making a big deal out of 12 picks,

then why did he trade away three of them?

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by Jamie DeVriend on Apr 26, 2010 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe he saw how many solid talented guys dropped

And figured signing a handful of undrafted guys, while adding a 5th round pick in next year’s more watered down draft, is enough to offset the loss of seventh rounders?

As for the trading the 5th rounder for Benn, don’t know. Guess he really wanted Benn.

by TheRevTy on Apr 26, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would've been next year's 4th then

In trades next year’s picks are always worth less than this year’s picks.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol, ok.

Stay thirsty my friends.

by bucnut1 on Apr 26, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

My only guess is that he knew only X amount of guys could make the team this year and opted to move on without those picks.

He more or less recouped the 5th rounder (2011) by trading away two 7th rounders.

As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.

by Buc Wild on Apr 26, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

While I’m sure that we will get a decent player with that 5th round pick, I couldn’t help but do a Tim the Toolman Taylor “Huhhh?” when I heard that we had done that. Basically we traded Leftwich and another 7th rounder for a 5th rounder in weak draft year (supposedly). I don’t think that’s a good deal at all.

We’ll see how this draft turns out, but in all honesty it would have been hard to screw it up. I’ll give Dom credit for essentially getting Benn for Gaines Adams and also for having the guts to go with Price. He still seems to make questionable decisions but as long as the good keeps outweighing the bad I’ll support him.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really understand why everyone's so unhappy about trading away 7th rounders

We got a 5th rounder for trading away the choice to draft two guys who were about 20 picks away from being free agents.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I don't think it's that everyone is unhappy.

Just confused after they seemed so proud of themselves for obtaining five seventh round draft picks. If they were so valuable in this deep draft then I find it odd that they let them go so easily. With all the juniors that came out this year, the draft is going to be very shallow in the 5-7 rounds in 2011. In my mind a 5th rounder next year isn’t that valuable. There are a few free agents such as Donovan Warren that those picks could have been used on. Now he has been signed by the Jets whereas he could have been a Buc.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or if you don't like Warren.

Obviously they liked Snead. We were lucky enough to get him, but what if somebody beat us to the punch. Don’t see why they just wouldn’t use one of those 7th round picks just in case.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

.

Well, look at it like this: before the draft, getting 12 picks means not just 12 picks but mostly a lot of options. Once you get to the seventh round, and you get that offer to trade two 7ths for a 5ths, it shouldn’t matter whether he was proud to have them if that 5th rounder represented good value.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The way I and I think a lot of others look at it is like this

2010 7th = 2011 5th or thereabouts. So it seems like we traded 2 picks for the price of one. That is probably not realistic, but that is how it seems to me right now. Essentially a whole rounds worth of Juniors came out earlier than expected this year, which seriously skews next year’s later rounds.

We’ll just have to wait and see if it was a good move. Only time will tell.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's true at all

Maybe a 7th rounder this year was the same quality as a 6th rounder next year. But even then, a lot of the guys the Bucs are targeting in the 7th round this year are going to be undrafted free agents anyway, so that downgrades the value of those picks.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really much difference in a late 6th, early 7th.

But I guess that just depends on how you think Denver is going to fare next season. I expect them to make the playoffs.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I expect Timmy Tebow to investigate

and to finally get to the bottom of what is really going on at the Denver Airport.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I expect them to screw the pooch really

“Playoffs? Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!” is what I expect McD to say after six weeks. Thomas and Tebow require a lot of time to develop, so they can’t come in and help a lot next year. Their offense was never very good last year and their defense collapsed, and their DC even left.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't expect Tebow to contribute

but I do expect Thomas too. Just because he is raw doesn’t mean he won’t contribute. Colston was raw as hell and still tore up the league his rookie year. Nolan left, but Martindale is running the exact same system with exactly the same players. We’ll see, but that division is still weak, although K.C. and Oakland have improved this offseason. I definitely don’t think they get worse than 8-8 or continue the slide they had last year. As much as it pains me to say, I think McDaniels is a pretty good coach.

I also think Eric Decker was a nice selection and he will definitely contribute right away. Perrish Cox and Syd’Quan Thompson (who was taken with one of our picks) should add some serious depth to that secondary.

We’ll see what shakes out with the Brady Quinn, Orton, Tebow scenario, but as long as nothing crazy happens and Orton wins the starting gig I project them to win 9-10 games next season with their extremely easy schedule.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with it.

At that point people are picking out of a much larger pool. Most of the guys in the 7th round, had they not been drafted by the team they were drafted by would have fallen into UDFA. I put pretty little value in the 7th round….which is not to say there are some solid players available.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Apr 26, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any of us could have had a great draft with all the talent that was in it this year.

And I’m with Voodoo on trading away some of those picks. There’s still a lot of holes that need to be filled and that’s up to Dom to fill them, that’s where he needs to step up and earn his paycheck.

Stay thirsty my friends.

by bucnut1 on Apr 26, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Generally holes don't get filled with 7th rounders

Special teams get filled with 7th rounders, sometimes teams get lucky, VERY lucky and get a real talent that no one saw or scouted. But to say you are filling starter holes with 7th rdrs is a stretch.

Buc'em if they can't take a joke.

by PalmBeachBucco on Apr 26, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not True...IMO

Look at the grades the pros gave each team. It appears that some teams drafted better than others. It is too early to tell, but it appears Dom did a good job. Try to enjoy it for a bit.

by McBuc on Apr 26, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy Man

I simply missed the reply button, I was refering to your comment that “any of us could have had a good draft”…Probably not word for word. I was not attacking you, just saying that other teams do not appear to have done as well.

by McBuc on Apr 27, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is like saying

Good job bringing in that account Joe, but any other guy in the room could have closed that sale too. It is a back handed complement. Again, not trying to attack you, I am just saying all the teams had the same access to the same players, so it was an even playing field. You are right, the “pros” or “experts” opinions may not matter, but it is all we have to go on. I know you said it was a good draft for the Bucs.

by McBuc on Apr 27, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't really an even playing field

The Bucs were obviously in better position than most with the third pick in every round.

by Sander on Apr 27, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

I should say that the draft was deep for everyone. You are correct that the first ten teams have an advantage, in the first three rounds for sure.

by McBuc on Apr 27, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just got a little fired up at the snippy reply. It is not designed to be even, but this one was deep and the grades are based off the position of the pick.

by McBuc on Apr 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like getting the extra 5th for next year also.

It is more fuel for moving up if we have to next year.

by IBleedPewter on Apr 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I was really hoping for Kindle or Mays in the second round...

But I took a look at our wide reciever roster and with the FA signings we have 15 (including TE)… Michael Clayton is making $7M this year? Really? Winslow is making $5K this year? Seriously? I am hoping Williams and Benn make an immediate splash.

I’m ready for the season to start.

by lilbunnywabbitt on Apr 26, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Winslow is worth the money

And Clayton is extremely likely to be cut.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Winslow was worth the money last year

and his former problems could resurface quickly. A leopard can’t change it’s spots and all that jazz. I’ll agree that if he can keep producing at the level he did last year that he is worth all that and a bag of chips. Aside from that point, I think he was citing the fact that it is ridiculous that Clayton makes more than our #1 weapon on offense, not that Winslow’s contract is too much. I think.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give Winslow some credit

He had a great year, he showed everyone he could keep his mouth shut (on a bad team even) and play well. I think he deserves the credit until he does something to deserve criticism again.

by Sander on Apr 26, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe one year is enough to get credit in your book

but for me he has been a serial offender and one good year may work towards buying him SOME good credit, I’m not painting any halos over his head just yet. I’m sure most of his problems stemmed from being stuck in Cleveland, but I’m still only cautiously optimistic when it comes down to his future here.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 26, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clayton is either gone or gonna have to take a contract restructure.

Also, it’s been said Taylor Mays relies way too much on his athleticism and just flies at people to hit them hard. So he may have a hard time adjusting to the pros.

by NewLogic on Apr 26, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well,

I’m sure you guys have noticed that we are already cleaning up the roster. Hovan is gone, Askew(though he was good when he was here) is gone, and most-likely Clayton is gone. What is not to like about that?

On the picks, I felt we did just fine. We solidified our D-line, drafted two play-makers for Freeman, and for now, replaced the captains for our Special Teams. I think the trade for next years 5th rounder was a great idea. We could use it as trade bait to move up again next year or draft a player worthy of the pick.

by Buc It on Apr 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

My concerns are mostly with Price playing nose tackle and the P with our 6th round pick. People who think we should have drafted for need primarily are probably over looking the fact that this draft is not just for next year, but is part of a process to build a team over several years. While our Bucs didn’t plug every hole on their sinking ship, they have laid a great foundation whose holes will be filled in next years draft, FA, and the 2012 draft (cause we suck and need time to not). Dominik has given himself a pass in my book for this next season, and i’m also looking forward to the ‘changes’ on D that ‘the dream’ has talked about with incorporating his two pass rushing DTs.

by CubFanRaysaddict on Apr 27, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Brian Price as a player, and like his choice

but don’t feel he is the right player for our NT position. Needs to be much bigger but not sure his frame will carry and additional weight. Could have made a better choice specifically for that position on our DL.

by Cracker Ball on Apr 27, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Dominik/Morris did a great job.

I have always said that I will applaud the team when they do things right, and criticize them when they don’t. I’m very pleased with the team they are building and a lot of pieces are falling into place. We still have some big holes to fill and have virtually no depth at many positions, but the draft was a great start.

Again, I said this well before the draft, I don’t mind building through the draft. The only problem with that is that you can’t address everything through it. You have to combine it with Free Agency, which is where the Bucs have fallen short.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Apr 26, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think they have fallen short in free agency.

I would assume that they also know that even if they dip into the not so good FA pool this year, they would still be a so so team. I would like to see them spend one more year like this one on the draft then go for plugging holes with FAs. Fallen short implies they did something wrong. I think they are just working a different plan than you are hoping for. It looks to me like they are running their team similarly to how the Rays built their team. Not a bad business model to follow.

by terp12 on Apr 26, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball has farm systems.

Football doesn’t. HUGE difference.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Apr 26, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

A little too literal.

They are stocking up on young talent. They could be positioning themselves for sustained success. They claim their goal is doing this through the draft, and they seem to be serious about that strategy. Having a plan and working towards their goal, rather than playing with any shiny new FA that hits the market. That is what I meant by being SIMILAR.
I would guess that once they think they have built the team to be reasonably competitive, and need a few top guys to take them to the next level, they will get a few impact FA as needed. Until then, a FA or two now will have minimal impact on what will likely still be a so-so team this year.

by terp12 on Apr 26, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is still a major difference.

A football team only has a 53 man roster, so its hard to stockpile young talent and not sacrifice winning games. A baseball team also has hundreds of players in their farm system so if the team misses on a draft pick its not really a big deal. Couple that with the fact that most rookies only sign five year contracts and you are forced to come to the determination that you must spend money to win in the NFL. It is nearly impossible to be competitive with a low payroll like the Rays have so shrewdly done.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 27, 2010 9:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Similarities and differences

I agree with you. Maybe similar to the Rays is just too broad of a statement. I didn’t mean they were going to be like the Rays and be competitive on the cheap. What I meant was that they are working a long term plan for long term success. It involves smart drafting and targeted FAs. The Bucs will definitely have to spend money, but I think you will see the money spent
a) when they have to sign some of these new Buc draft picks
b) when they have to re-sign some of their better players, Penn and Ruud will get their contracts in time. (although I am curious to see how Ruud does this year first. I’m not totally sold on him yet.)
c) when they have built a team where bringing in a few more FAs makes sense. I just don’t see the point in doing that this year, unless they can get a player that fits their long term plan.

I like the way they are going about recreating this team. It will take a little while before they become a top tier team but, I think it will be fun to see them grow the organization. I much prefer this type of planning to the Gruden/Allen era of plugging holes with cast offs without thinking about next year.

by terp12 on Apr 27, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Me too.

I just think it is rough on the fans to ask them to sit idly by while the team loses. Obviously if money was spent on free agents they would be more competitive in the short term, but if a couple of losing seasons is all we have to do to have a decade of success I’m all for it. It’s just tough to gauge whether or not these guys are really building the team for future success or not. It requires blind faith, and not too many people have that in this day and age.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

All that being said.

I do think this was an awesome draft and hopefully most of these guys pan out for us. I hope that next year they look towards filling some holes with the ton of free agents that are going to be out there and we can make a playoff run in 2011.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by LeeCaz on Apr 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: but this is funny
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer," Schwartz had told me. "I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."
He was exaggerating for effect – I think.

Jim Schawrtz via Michael Silver

I was the head of the Eric Berry bandwagon- Im sad to say its partially over.
Keep it building,Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!

by 4QB on Apr 26, 2010 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Apr 26, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that they got a 5th rounder for the 2 7th rounders

Bucs could easily flip that 2011 5th rounder next offseason for a player or other considerationsSay like trading that 5th rounder and like a 4th rounder for a higher pick.. Shrewd move imo. They got what they needed this year, being greedy wouldn’t have got them that much more then what they have now.

by Joe Grizzly on Apr 26, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree.

A 5th > 2 7th Rounders.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Apr 26, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking Ahead

The Bucs did a great job addressing needs based on the positional strength of this year’s draft.

Looking ahead to next year the quality looks to be in DE (Robert Quinn, Cameron Heyward, Adrian Clayborne, Marcel Dareus, Greg Romeus), OT (Anthony Castanzo, Matt Reynolds, Joseph Barksdale, Gabe Carimi, Nate Solder), and CB (Patrick Peterson, Ras I Dowling, Prince Amukamara, Aaaron Williams). Then there are the usual suspects – Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallett, Mark Ingram. The draft will be much more shallow.

It looks like we have a solid plan in place and Dom is always looking forward. One more solid draft and the team will be beast!

by Walkin' the Plank on Apr 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

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