Editorial: Lack of Free Agent pickups should be no surprise
by Niko Houllis on Mar 6, 2010 9:22 AM EST
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PrintIts not as if we were not warned. The Buccaneers GM Mark Dominik has made it clear, the Bucs are planning to build a winning program by building a solid foundation of players through the draft, the only proven way to build a nucleus of a consistent winner, at least by the standards of the last 15 years.
Clearly the Bucs have learned their lesson from overspending on a select few free agents that has taken over the league in recent years, only find the results less than inspiring.
Last years top 5 free agent signings resulted in Zero playoff appearances. How far did the Redskins and Seahawks get again?
Only a handful of teams were actually active yesterday, the Ravens are a club that is a player or two away from the Big dance, and thus could justify trading draft picks for a proven player now. The Bucs are not one or two players away, and are best served by dipping into one of the deepest drafts in over two decades, and they are loaded with premium picks. Three of the top 50 and 5 of the top 100 players will be on the Bucs for the next 4 to 6 years.
Chicago is also one of the few teams to be active yesterday. What choice do they have? They will miss out on this rich draft by making the kind of deals Bucs fans want their team to make. They dont pick until the 3rd round, and all they have to show for it is a Quarterback unable to get them to even a .500 record, and a lost pick in the Gaines Adams tragedy.
Patience, is a virtue; The Bucs will win more games than they did last year. They may not compete for a playoff spot, but the team was competitive in their own division in 2009 and should be so in 2010 as well. The Bucs are simply putting their money in the best odds, the rich draft, instead of the poor FA market.
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No problem
with the Bucs strategy. As you stated this is an incredibly deep draft. The Bucs did a good job picking up extra picks. Now it’s time to turn those picks into a foundation for this team going forward. We are equally poor on both sides of the ball. This draft, especially the first 3 rounds, should fill numerous holes. I would have been upset if we traded some of our premium picks for the guy’s that were available. Dominic did well in the draft last year. If he can do it again this team’s future will be looking a lot brighter.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
Yeah, i wish we could trade Michael though,
and some others for more picks- in an incredibly deep draft like this. I would love to see how many picks we could get.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
Michael... who?
Clayton? What in the world could we get for him right now, especially with that eyesore of a salary?
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Yeah, Clayton
Chuckles- I believe if a team is patient enough and has a good WR coach: then yeah, we could get like a 5th rounder.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
I don't think we could get a bag of chips for a 27-28 year old WR who cant catch
and who plays 13-14 games a year.
Im in full agreement with BucWild here..
Who would want him now? with his bloated contract too??
Were better off just keeping him, listening to how good he is playing in Camp, watch him make a few good catches in the first qtr of some preseason games, then go do what he does best.
Collect Checks.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
I'd really like to see the Bucs stand pat...
with our first four picks (unless there is someone INCREDIBLE available), I wouldn’t mind the Bucs packaging some of the later round picks to move up a round or so.
Boom. Outta Here.
If Suh or McCoy are there at 3
and the Bucs trade down, I will drive to One Buc Place and protest like hell.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I'm saying the Bucs better stand pat
if McCoy/Suh are available and not trade down….although you referenced the issue of trading up.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I only think we should trade the 6 or 7 round picks...
to move up to earlier rounds. I don’t think they should trade out of three.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 6, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
If they see a guy they really think is a gem
then sure.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I would rather have less picks that are of higher quality...
than ten picks. That’s a lot, and the later the pick the less likely to make the roster.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 6, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I DOUBT this could happen
but what would you say to a Suh or McCoy at #3 and trading our two 2nd rounders to move up to 8 or so if Berry is still there?
I would do it.
Two dynamic players that ‘will’ make impact for years to come (on the defense). Nobody’s really said anything negative about them. For the future’s sake (defense) Dom and Rah would do it. However, it also could line the end of their career. If Freeman struggles (no weapons; free agency ahem) then that’s Rah and Dom’s ticket out too.
If you really believe that we are going to build a winning team
with rookies, your crazy. Name one team who has ever done that.
If you are OK with simply being competitive in games against our own division, I will take your Bucs Fan card. To win and compete in the NFL it was going to take an aggressive FA pursuit.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
This too.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
Early '80s 49ers
Also, yet yet yet yet yet again, this was never going to be a winning year. Ever. No one was under that impression nor was that ever part of the plan.
Agreed...
look at the 2001 Pats team that won it all. The core of that team was through the draft. Building through free agency is trading in an inefficient market.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 6, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
You need both.
You build through the draft and complement your roster in free agency. If you have one or two holes, you can fill it in free agency, but with as many gaping holes as we have, it might not be bad to plug a hole with an FA and draft around them.
I would agree...
if your goal is to grow through losing. I’m not expecting a Super Bowl, I just want to be competitive. If anyone believes that we were last year, I would be happy to go over the numbers with them, despite what Niko says.
However, this is also the mindset that develops you into a losing franchise. IE Browns, Lions. They never expect to compete, they always expect to grow.
You need to spend money to surround the rookies.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Where were you from 83-96? I waited 14 years for a winner.
If you can’t wait through two, fan card.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
by Niko Houllis on Mar 6, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
And I guess HD really is clearer....
I saw blow out games 4 times, and we were in each division game except née Orleans. Don’t turn this personal now ok?
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Not time for that
FA’a are more for putting your team over the top. You really can’t build a team that way. Once we build the talent base up then it’s easier to see what holes you still need to fill. This team is just one big hole. Obviously with a bunch of young guy’s this team won’t be contender’s next year. No amount of FA’s would change that.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Mar 6, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Name one team????
Colts, pats, steelers….every dynasty.
I didn’t say they are going to win next year with rookies! That’s so shortsighted.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
by Niko Houllis on Mar 6, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Great. I said if you want to wait until 2012
to continue to build, this is how you do it. If you want to win under 5 games again this year, rely on the draft. If this is the route you want to go, then you are waiting until reasonably 2015 to see a contender again.
If you want to compete this year, you are going to need to be aggressive in Free Agency.
The Bucs are simply putting their money in the best odds, the rich draft, instead of the poor FA market.
You believe that this will make us a competitive team. You said so yourself. I completely disagree. Perhaps 5 years down the road…Perhaps, unless of course your drafts turn out to be similar to the Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns…..then you are stuck as a losing franchise who is unable to assertain key Free Agents because you are such a dismal team. However, you can have NO reasonable expectation of competing this year. Not even within our own division. Again, we competed in the divisional games, and 1 won (out of 6). In my eyes competitive means competing for the Divisonal Title, which we came no where near doing and were obviously the third worst team in the NFL, despite a late season surge.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Think of it this way
If we continue on Gruden’s path with FA’s then yes, we could be competitive in the division and MAYBE make the playoffs. OR, we could take 2-3 years and rebuild and then make the playoffs every year like we were doing with Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, Alstott….etc, and have a chance for the trophy. I personally would glady take 2-3 years to rebuild then to put up with the FA circus that will never give us a championship ever. You can’t win that way.
That was with guys who were in there
7-10th year. If you want to wait that long, then great. I’d rather push for more immediate success. (3 seasons)
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
I'm not saying 2015
But 2009 was expected, 2010 won’t be as bad hopefully around 7-9/ 8-8. I know everybody wants to win now but even if we added FA’a right now we still wouldn’t win alot of games.
No way we win 7-9 games
by relying on rookies to turn it around.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
We'll have a lot more talent next year
And no one realistically expected a 7-9 win season last season.
Nor should anyone next year if you build via draft....
which we are.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
True. Which is why it's the upper bound of my predictions
I certainly wouldn’t expect fewer than 5. With some luck, 7 is very possible.
You are not relying on rookies to turn it around...
your relying on the guys who put up top ten defensive scoring stats after taking over the defense with Morris post Saints game, and the team that won 2 of the last three games including two on the road. By adding 4 or 5 more starters, your going to see a team that will also get better as the season goes on. This year, you can expect some leaders to emerge from the pile. The next Sapp and Brooks will emerge soon, and the rest of the team will look up to them.
There is no reason to think this team is another Detroit or Cleveland. They have not repeated the mistakes of those franchises. Sorry you cant see this is exactly how we built before, or how the Dynasties of the last 20 years have been built too.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
4 or 5 more starters?
Are we going to be starting 4th rounders? Probably not.
It’s not how the dynasties of the last 20 years have been built. Thats garbage. They are built with a mixture of key Free Agent pieces and rookies. The fact that the Patriots never go after Free Agents is a bunch of crap.
No where have I suggested we go the Redskins route. There has to be a balance. It’s not all or the other, like you and Sander seem to think. I will go into detail later, but I have a long day tomm and it’s late.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
In this draft? a fourth rounder has a very good chance of starting...
and our SuperBowl MVP was a fourth round pick, even though he didnt start right away, he participated.
I Dont completely disagree with you, I think we need to pick up free agents, and I believe we will. Like I said somewhere, Cato June didnt get brought in until 3 weeks after free agency started.
The top guys didnt really make much of an impact last year, and this years class is far worse I think everyone will agree.
Everyone who jumped in has grossly overpaid. And the ones who jumped in, felt they were THAT PLAYER away from having a team to compete with.
So again, im not against getting free agents.
But the big named ones, shouldnt come in until youve got a team missing a piece or two. The Bucs are trying to build a foundation. This is my opinion.
Clearly, there are two sides to this argument, and they are represented in this thread.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Agree
Having 5 of the first 99 picks should be huge. Knowing some of these guys won’t pan out it’s still not a stretch to think we can pick up several starter’s. If we can get 4 starter’s and 4 or 5 depth/ST’s types then we will have a foundation to build on. I think that is the time to pick your FA’s. You can be a lot smarter because you know exactly what position’s you need to fill.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
Its not one side or the other.
There is plenty of room in the middle. I agree with both of you far more than you think. However, I believe in moderation through Free Agency (Not over-spending for Tight Ends or a fat, lazy Albert Haynesworth), and not going after all of them like the Bears. One big Free Agent (like Antrel Rolle) and a couple of role-players paired with GOOD draft picks. The Lions built a perennial loser through the draft.
Every dynasty also needs a quarterback. Patriots, Niners, Cowboys, Steelers (as overrated as I think Bradshaw is), or even someone like the Bills of the 90’s.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
I can agree with that
I have nothing against free agency, and I think getting a few quality free agents is key too. I also agree with you that the absolute key to getting a dynasty in place is a quality quarterback. I think there’s a chance Freeman develops into one, but we’ll have to see on that one. It’s better than Gruden’s perpetual quarterback roulette, at least.
At the same time, I can’t think of a single unrestricted free agent that would fit with the Bucs and the Bucs’ plan. I can think of a few trade targets and restricted free agents that would help – but the problem with those is that they cost draft picks. Add to that that this is a terrible year to go after free agents – the tenders and the competition for the few unrestricted free agents really make this a horrible year to get good free agents, and let’s face it, the Bucs aren’t exactly the best team for FAs to sign with.
Anyway, I’m not advocating a strategy of building through the draft exclusively, and I do want some free agent signings. I don’t see much opportunities for good things to happen in that area this year, though.
Boldin would have
But he’s old and injury-prone.
Rolle would not have fit, no. Cover safety who wasn’t the best on his own team and is getting ridiculous money with his new contract, while what we need is a safety who can make tackles and support the run. Tanard Jackson is a great free safety.
I wouldn't say a "very good chance" of starting
but maybe a better-than-normal chance of starting, giving the depth at certain positions in this draft and the weakness of certain many areas on our roster.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The big franchises were all built through the draft
They were not built through free agency. What always happens, is that they build a core team through the draft, and then add free agents later to fill the few holes that are left.
Disagree.
Please see my Patriots example below so I don’t have to repeat myself.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
But thats one though...thats what were trying to say.
there are no absolutes, nothing is really 100%.
When you pick apart the dynasties though, a great deal of them did.
What number? I dont have time left in the day to do that one.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Well....I would say 2014 or 15
depending on what happens with the lock-out ordeal. It could be a wash of a year.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
I saw that nowhere on this page prior to you saying that just now, so If you did, I did not read it from another page.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Competative means you were competing....and you talked about IN GAMES. When you do down to the wire and still have a chance to win..
that is being competitive!
And it doesnt take 5 years! That is ridiculous! By the 3rd year this plan will show signs of fruition. Not 5 years, your being silly now. In 5 years your free agents will be long gone!
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
the next sapp and brooks will emerge soon. lol hall of famers your talking about there.
i,m going to pinch you now so you can wake from your dream land.i do" hope" you are right tho.
You took my statement, and then took it out of context.
I meant the leadership positions Sapp and Brooks represented.
I apologize if I did not make myself clearer…
Here is what I said…
“This year, you can expect some leaders to emerge from the pile. The next Sapp and Brooks will emerge soon, and the rest of the team will look up to them.”
So I meant the leadership that Sapp and Brooks represented…
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Then the Raiders were a competitive team last year.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
They were, in a lot of games.
Were they competitive in a playoff race? no.
Did we watch Bucs games and know the Bucs were more than two scores down? only a few
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Our definitions of competitive is far different.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
The teams in our own division are not standing pat...
with their teams. The Falcons have stolen Dunta Robinson right in front of us. They were already better than we were. I just hate the “lets build completely through the draft” philosophy, as it requires very good personnel decisions.
Not our strong suit.
It WASNT our strong suit, Im not so sure that hasnt changed.
I like last years draft, and even Gruden/Allens last one wasnt bad.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Does anyone else find it hilarious that were "interested" in Marques Douglas?
Trade the Guy away for a pick and get him on the back end for cheap. Rofl.
Discuss FA topics at the FA Hub, on the right hand side of your screen.
This post is to discuss the Glazers strategy.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Cop out
Let’s not go overboard defending the owners lack of spending. If these owners had spent a little of that cap space in previous years, we wouldn’t have wilted down the stretch each year. You have to play both markets to win in this league, you build through the draft and you scoop up the guys that fit what you need. The Saints did that as well, drafted a few good players in Bush and Colston, then bought the cornerstones for their defense and offense, like that guy, whats his name, Drew Brees. This year isn’t the year to make a big free agency push? Really? I have seen 2 all pro safeties (big need), and two good to great DE on the market, and you are telling me we are better off without them? Even long term, I am not buying it. Pro bowl players give leadership to the other players, and sets the bar for the position. The draft is a crap shoot, for every Revis pickup there are 10 Russels.
Also, the Seahawks and Redskins FA signings didn’t work out because they had no QB. I am all for going in the draft, but its selling out to blow smoke and not call this rebuilding process what it is, a money saving rebuild. We rode our stars for years, and we didn’t spend the money to give them backups to keep them fresh, so by the end of the year we were toast. I f we were rebuilding through the draft, then why did we sign Winslow and Clayton to absurd contracts? Our GM is making bad money decisions and then selling the public on why he isn’t going after the FA we can actually use to lead our young players? Is Clayton teaching the young up and comers how to not catch?
There are two all-pro safeties
Neither of whom is a strong safety – which is a need. We already have a terrific free safety. The DEs on the market are old and won’t be able to contribute when the rest of the team is in their prime.
I’d like to see more free agency spending, but at the same time you have to be able to see the consistency of building for the future and not to win next year.
I agree
But I think Kampman, and to a lesser degree Peppers would be great fits, especially if we get one of the two DE we covet in the draft. And for the Rolle part, I was thinking more of the converted cb idea that we also need. Like I said the guys out in FA this year are not very attractive, my blundered rant was more of a reproach to give the GM and the Glazers and sort of confidence by declaring they are rebuilding thru the draft. I would rather they just said that money is tight so they are going to use the draft until the economy improves. Saying rebuilding exclusively thru the draft is the way to succeed is totally incorrect.
I didn't realize we were coveting DE more than DT.
And the Giants WAY WAAAAAAAAAAAY overpaid for Antrelle Rolle.
I’m not particularly thrilled, to say the least, with doing nothing being done and proclaiming early on that nothing would be done. I think probably there were some guys out there that could’ve helped us without dropping the kind of coin that the Giants did on Rolle.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
And there still could be some out there
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
That's all I want
I don’t want the same guise of spending money foolishly and then not spending money on worthwhile pieces. We can not get all the way without getting good draft luck (educated guesses) and picking up those key free agents / trades that open up.
Your correct eric, its not.
However in this year, it may just be that way. There are only a handful of players worth getting, and look at the prices paid for them. They went at a premium.
I can list over 20 teams that have not picked up a free agent at this point. Its not like were the only team not doing anything.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Who cares if they went for a premium?
There is no cap this year. We have the third lowest payroll in the NFL. You guys really care how much a player costs? Newsflash: we are fans, not GMs. I could care less whether the Glazers clear twenty million rather than forty million or whatever. As a fan I want them to put a winning product on the field, and I don’t care what it costs. If they are unwilling to spend money to improve the team then they should sell it to somebody who will.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 7, 2010 11:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, I realize its not my money,
but we ALL KNOW the GLazers dont have that much to spend. That is a fact we have to live with.
You want Peppers? or money to sign Suh?
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Really? Your gonna call those deals for Peppers good solid deals for a team with as many holes as the Bucs need to fill? Just to have a guy who may be washed up play two more years?
Besides, the Bucs DID spend money in free agency last year, or you would not have heard of Ward, Winslow, and the others, nor Faine, Bryant, etc.
Am I happy the Glazers have money problems? Heck no. But it is what it is. Nothing you or I can do about it.
And when is safety a BIG need? Its not even a need. I dont think Sabby is going to work out, but lets face it, John Lynch wasnt John Lynch yet at the same point of his career. This is the tell tale year for Sabby. Tjack is working out just fine.
I havnt seen one free agent other than Bolding worth the price paid for him for our franchise to have to pay.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Hold on there.
You would rather have Sabby Miss-a-tackle-y and botch a cover-age-y than a guy who is at least sound at the form of tackling. Sabby has had years to learn how to tackle and unfortunately isn’t working out too well.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Do I think Sabby will work out?
Not really.
Does he have one more year to show if he can? Yes.
He has only played two years, losing his first year to IR. So last year was virtually his sophomore slump season.
Sabby also made some big plays too.
So all I am saying is, Safety is NOT a BIG need. Not right now.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
I see what you're saying.
And I agree to a point. I don’t see either of our safety positions being as bone-dry in talent as our WR spots.
I just happen to be in the camp of those who don’t see Sabby panning out in this league. I would love to get that impact safety in this talented class if one can be had. There are numerous guys out there that could be great options and I would hate to piss those options away simply because we want to give an underachieving player more time.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I have a feeling that is what were going to get..
I would bet money we will get these three positions filled in first two rounds.
DT
WR
Safety
Not in that order perhaps
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
the problem with relying too heavily on the draft...
Is that you’re relying on unproven talents that could well take some time to develop.
The best mix had been drafting well at key positions (D-line, O-line, LB) and getting talented Free Agents at others (WR and QB in particular).
While we shouldn’t expect the Bucs to go on a Redskins-like frenzy of free agency signage, we ought to see some effort by the front office to secure talented players at certain spots – especially WR – just to show that they know what they’re doing and where they think a veteran presence will help most.
My particular beef is that there didn’t seem to be much effort to pursue Boldin, a talented WR whose attitude issues might have been based on getting miffed with his previous team’s owners (we are talking about the Bidwells there). Yes there is an injury history there but also a history of playing through those injuries. If Bryant was out the door, bringing in Boldin would have lessened the need to draft a WR this April…
Relive the shocking NOOOOOOOO of April 25 2009 at Witty's Draft Review and laugh laugh laugh...
Boldin and Bryant are basically the same
If we didn’t sign Bryant why would we sign Boldin? Boldin is a little better but with his field negativity and injuries it’s not worth signing him. Last thing Freeman needs is another head case.
I wouldn't really label Boldin with "field negativity".
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Dude
It’s okay to be blind follower of “the plan”, but please don’t start knocking one of the best wide receivers in the NFL. It is inexcusable that they were unwilling to give up a 3rd round draft pick for a perennial pro bowler.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, I happen to agree with you
and I don’t know why it’s required to wait until the “foundation” is in place to try to improve your football team. That’s stubborn rigidity gone overboard.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
At this point
I’m starting to worry that they are going to lowball our draft picks. This reluctance to spend money is going to lead to problems if it continues. It is probably a silly thing to worry about but they have done nothing to alleviate my worst fears thus far.
Kept Olson
Raheem will continue with double duty
Found a bunch of nobodies to fill the holes on the coaching staff.
Let Bryant walk without even tryingApparently didnt make a single phone call in regards to free agency.
I didnt want to believe the cheap talk, but it would appear the writing is on the wall.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ehh, Raheem isn't going to pull double duty-
He does have an assistant Defensive coach- No particular group to point to,though.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong
Every D-coordinator has assistants. As long as Raheem is responsible for calling plays he is the defensive coordinator. Head coach plus defensive coordinator equals double duty.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That TV Money cant go anywhere but to players salaries, so I dont think you have anything to worry about.
Just like last year, we got Freeman in camp just in time, and our GMs have a history of getting players into camp on time or near on time, and Dominik learned from all of them for the most part. There is plenty of money for the rookies on the team.
The double duty is not a cheap thing, its because he did so good thing.
And Olsen, well, I dont know how that is going to play out. I wont be surprised if we have a good offense next year. I wont be surprised if we dont.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
You dont have to wait, if you remember, they picked up guys last year..
..this year the few guys available that were good were just going for too much money. Simple supply and demand. You only have a handful of impact players, look what was paid for them.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Boldin is not one of the best WR's in the league
Talented yes, potential yes, but not quite one of the best just yet. I never said I was happy with the team, but I do understand what their trying to do and it’s not adding FA’s. It’s pointless to get upset over the team, they never sign who you want. I would like some FA’s too but it’s not happening this year. If I ran my business that way I would go under. You cannot just throw a group of people together and expect things to work, I build and promote my employees from the inside, then maybe grab a guy who can run a machine for me here and there. If I just throw people in the fire then I wouldn’t have any real leadership and everybody would step on everybody elses toes and it would be a mess. I don’t agree with the personel they got either, but from a business standpoint the Bucs are doing the right thing. Now if you wanna get upset for being a true contender next year then so be it, no team can win every year.
Disagree
If you take into account Boldins injuries his numbers stsck right up there with Fitzgeralds.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 7:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He gets injured every year
He missed playoff games last year, (ankle and leg)
He missed playoff games the year before that (hamstring)
What good is paying a premium for a guy who will undoubtedly miss regular season games AND cant tough it out through Post Season games as well.
I dont understand how people say, “if you dont count the games he was injured”,
thats the point he cant stay healthy.
Larry Fitzgerald is simply a better player. He is less injury prone and you could make the argument that if not for Fitzgerald constant double teaming that Boldin wouldnt have the escalated numbers he does.
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
Except for the fact that Boldin had great numbers before Fitz got there
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 8:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldnt say Boldin cant tough injuries out
but you’re right, he does miss 3-4 games a year it seems. Boldin was also a top WR before Fitz came around
I dont fully disagree with you witty...
I just think the way the market played out this season, they knew they werent going to pay over inflated prices for the handful of guys that are coveted. Id be surprised if we get no free agents at all.
But tomorrows stars for the Bucs, will be on draft day.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Q: are the Bucs pursuing any FAs on the market?
Other than the usual rumor mill foolishness, is there someone on the radar that we should get our hopes up? Especially anyone that can resolve the D-line / Wide Receiver needs?
Relive the shocking NOOOOOOOO of April 25 2009 at Witty's Draft Review and laugh laugh laugh...
Short answer.
No. We have no reason to believe they are pursuing any free agents at this time.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Short Answer
Yes, Aaron Kampman is the 1 free agent who has the motor to compete on every play and wont cause us to mortgage our future.
He is the 1 free agent that Bucs are paying any real attention to.
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
Not really-
Kampman is 30 right now, his prime is getting past him. I wouldn’t mind a two year deal, but i doubt that happens since Dom said he isn’t “interested” in Kampman.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
This is straight from ESPN
“Earlier Friday morning, Brad Biggs of National Football Post reported word from a league source that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers consider Kampman their “No. 1 target in free agency.” This would be a huge steal, and would be a good pairing with one of the Big Two if they choose to go that direction with the No. 3 pick in the draft."
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
I don't know any other source reporting that:
I have a feeling its a lie.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think you are suffering from a case of selective listening
Dominik already said that report is bull. I will believe the GM, and you believe your unnamed source.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 8:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
One minute you want Dominik fired
the next you will believe anything he whispers in your ear. Some of you guys should make an attempt to be more consistent.
Lie or not, anyone who knows anything about negotiating understands you dont reveal your true interest in anything until you have gauged its true market value. Otherwise you run the risk of running the price up after other people or teams get involved.
The source could be from Buccaneers Front office personnel or from Home Depot suggestion box. Point is you dont believe anything until Aaron Kampman has official not signed with your club.
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
I think one thing we can all agree on..
this time of the year, you cant count on what anything anyone is saying to be 100% true or without having an extra meaning.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
It's official
Kampman signed with Jaguars. In other news: National Football Post wins Pulitzer.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 7, 2010 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought I heard that St Louis has a contract agreement with Bradford already.
Guaranteed a stud DT!!!! If the rumor is true of course.
Go USA!!!!
No Kampman
Kampman reported going to the Jags.
I’m more interested in seeing who’s still on the WR market.
Relive the shocking NOOOOOOOO of April 25 2009 at Witty's Draft Review and laugh laugh laugh...
Here's an optimistic point of view
What if the Glazers were letting teams blow some money and get all hot and bothered by the big names and their plan is to come in after the first few days and start snatching up the value players for less. I didnt want Burleson or Walter at the deals they got, I didnt want Peppers at his deal, maybe they are waiting for teams to blow their load, and then make some smart signings.
Or maybe Im drunk with optimism.
What signings did work from last year?
Most of them ended up on the IR (Flip) or didn’t contribute (CLAYTON).
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
2.5 million down the drain on Crowell too.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hope you are right.
I am super discouraged right now.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wish I could too
but I am too pissed about Boldin right now. I’m gonna try to get my optimistic hat back on by Monday. I know one thing for sure though. I’m not getting my hopes again until the draft.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 5:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They have signed guys long after the start of FA before.
Id be surprised if we dont have 5 free agents competing for jobs by camp. They just may not come in for a while.
Cato June didnt come in until what, May?
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
It seems as though
Some people on this site want to turn us into the next Redskins Franchise or the mini Oakland Raiders.
Go out and spend every dollar on any and every free agent you can afford. Who needs the draft. Just paying extra money for baby sitters.
These players (Albert Haynesworth, Julius Peppers, and the like) get hyped up by Adam Schefter and the ESPN pundits and then some of you guys just buy it up, alot like Daniel Snyder and Al Davis. Only to end up sitting at home during the post season like the other bad teams who dont know how to build a team.
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
And you would have us be perpetually rebuilding chiefs or lions?
There is a happy medium required to be successful.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 6, 2010 8:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
A necessary medium is true
But its a balance that should be clearly tilted toward the draft considering where we are as a franchise. If we had cultivated pieces in place and were missing opportunities to consistently contend deep in the post season bringing in elite players would make sense. It does us no good to over pay for players that wont have a DIRECT effect on winning.
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
The fact that two teams cant get it right does not mean building via the draft is not the answer...
There are other problems the Lions and Chiefs have…
You have to draft well, just drafting doesnt do anything for you.
Drafting a WR with your No.1 pick three years in a row is not going to get it done.
But I suppose if we can use the Skins as an example, the Lions are fair game.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
It's not one side or the other Niko...
That’s the whole point we have been arguing. It’s not the Redskins, Bears or Eagles. It’s also not the Lions or Chiefs. It’s somewhere in the middle…. LIKE the Patriots, Cowboys, Giants, Vikings, Saints
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
This.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
All of those teams had teams ready to get to the next level before picking up the top of the line Free Agents.
Could you imagine the Saints getting Drew Brees in 2002? Would have been a waste. The Cowboys getting TO in 2001? Waste. What good would Favre have done in Minnesota 4 years ago.
All those teams are great examples of what we did here to build our SuperBowl team. Sure we picked up veterans here and there in the early stage. But Those teams put their core together via the draft (MOSTLY), and then picked up Free Agents to fill needs.
Check out todays Bucshots and follow the link to the Buccaneers.com story. I think I am just not explaining it well.
That, or we are all just too argumentative perhaps.
Put it like this, Im going to take three of the best players in recent history.
Steven Jackson
Peyton Manning
Randy Moss
Add all three of those players to the Bucs.
What is that going to do to the Bucs? Now realistically…..remember the poor defense….poor Oline play, etc.
Do we win 4 more games? 5? maybe we go 8-8? 9-7?
Now where are those players in 4 years? They are ready to be replaced!
Instead of those three, if you could draft a Josh Freeman, (lets assume hes going to be a star ok?), a star Back, and a Star Receiver. Those guys are going to be on the team in 10 years, therefore you dont need to keep replacing them. Less turnover, less wasted money spent, because your always spending money on free agents.
I only came to this conclusion by looking at the examples. Sure you can find one team here or there that picked up free agents and built a team. You may find two max, and to be honest, even that Pats team had its share of guys there already, and were talking about one of the best coaches of our time, and Im not going to get into the cheating.
But how many teams were built via the draft first? Its about 90%, and thats why I will stick to that.
Not only this, but my own team was built that way before, so Im ALL about repeating that plan.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
and before you go there....
I realize the draft is a crapshot sometimes, but like everything else, there are no absolutes. YOu cannot guarantee a big free agent is going to do the same thing for your team, IE Alvin Harper.
Or Jake Cutler?
Haynesworth?
Good drafting is just like picking good free agents. But its not 100% guaranteed in either world
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Im not saying spend every dime you have.
Im saying sign some players that help your team over the long haul. They don’t have to be like 40 million guaranteed or anything they can be like 4 mil guaranteed. If you could get someone useful that doesn’t suck for cheap, then do it. Players put fans in seats. Noone wants to go see a roster that is as depleted and filled with Practice Squad players. Fans wants to see pro bowlers.
You may think that washington sucks but there attendance numbers are way higher: NO 2 in fact.
And oakland, well forget them- Al davis doesn’t really have a clue anymore with Jabust russell at QB.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Thats almost a good point
But how happy are those fans to attend the Washington Redskins games only to watch them give the Detroit Lions their first win in almost 20 GAMES. All those “ProBowlers” and they still arent any good AT ALL.
So again, what good does it do us to spend Daniel Snyder money on over priced players to still be at home watching the first round of the playoffs every year.
They paid Albert Haynesworth 100 Million Dollars last year. Not only were they not to much better than us, for all the money Albert still didnt make the Pro Bowl.
2 Players from the Washington Redskins made the Pro Bowl, compared to their enormous payroll. Thats not anywhere near where I want our team to be.
How about you??
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
Agree to Disagree-
You may think that the Redskins payroll was huger than normal but in fact their payroll decreased from 2008 to 2009. Once they got rid of Cornelius Griffiin oversized contract.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
Also:
The redskins didn’t lose because of their defense- they lost because they didn’t have an OL, A RB, a #2 WR worth a damn, A QB, or any resemblance of an offense.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
Another notable point
but you just solidified my stance, they had no resemblance of an offense but how much were their offensive players paid, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, ANTWAAN RANDEL EL. Its funny when u think about it.
With that being said Id rather pay Antwaan Randel El than Michael Clayton.
Either way good points “Some other guy”
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
We bring up the Redskins, not just for 2008.
They have developed this pattern of spending for many many years now. Not just 08 or 09
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
True.
I hope no one on this site really wants us to do that, although I know there are a few who think the draft is where you get lucky but FA is where you get starters.
But all you have to do is look at last years bumper crop and your comment rings true.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
Ok, so- if these sources are right:
The Glazer family bought Manchester United in 2005 for about 790 million pounds against a wave of opposition from fans who feared they were loading it up with too much debt.
The club raised a 500 million pound bond in January to refinance its debts. The latest accounts show the club owed 507 million pounds at December 31 2009.
Link
That means only another 40 years till they pay it off, There's hope
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
Link:
http://www.bdnews24.com/details.php?id=155187&cid=19
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 6, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
They dont need to pay off the team to get out of the muck
they need to pay down the principle on some of the high interest personal loans that were used. That is whats killing them.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
For comparison's sake:
Peyton Manning when he came in to Indianapolis had a foundation built around him- he had two good RB’s in the first two years – Each averaging over a 1,000 yards rushing. He had at least one reciever throughout his whole career- Marvin Harrison and yes Marvin was established before Peyton came.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
I think every young QB
needs a seasoned receiver to grow with and learn from.
Cannons... fire them.
Buc'Em - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
And unfortunately
we don’t have one outside of K2.
When it comes to Eric Berry, Tennessee fans have seen and heard it all. He's known as "The Fifth Dimension". "Two-thirds of the planet is covered by water; the rest is covered by Eric Berry." The Tennessee "Minister of Defense". Besides Chuck Norris, who is the only guy to crash into Tim Tebow head-to-head and live to tell about it? Eric Berry.
by 4QB on Mar 7, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I know this going to sound stupid,
but what if Raheem/Dominik believe that Clayton will revert back to his rookie year form when he was the #1 (Galloway was out with injury). And if they don’t get a WR in FA, he is going to start the season as the #1 WR with a bunch of young around him.
I doubt thats the plan.
The Bucs should end up picking up a WR in the first three picks
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
That's what I am talking about
but anyone they draft will probably be #2 or #3 (Stroughter). It will still be rookies and 1-3 year pros with Clayton the senior member and probably the #1.
I do hope they take a shot at Kevin Walter, because they need to have someone with experience in there that can catch some balls.
There is no way to know this...
Draft position is just one thing….
what they do in camp, preseason, etc, is another.
Colston was a 7th rounder, Issac Bruce 2nd rounder, Donald Driver 7th, Ocho Cinco 2nd round, Desean Jackson 2nd, T.J. Housyamama 7th, Antwaan Randle El was also a 2nd rounder.
Then these 1st round picks at WR :
Ted Ginn Jr
Braylon Edwards (3rd overall)
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Roddy White, were all taken in the first round.
Granted, many other 1st round picks are stars today.
My point is that a 2nd round pick is still a possible elite player, especially in this draft.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan since 1979
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