As a lifelong Buc fan I sit and I stew, and I grow pissed…at what?
As a lifelong Buc fan I sit and I stew, and I grow pissed…at what? The Buc’s recent turn for the worse?...the players?...coaches?...ownership?...the little to no action in the F/A market? NO!
I’ve grown completely disgusted with those in the media that try to micro analyze every supposed factoid/half truth/rumor about the Glazers finances, every move/non-move by the team in F/A, every reference to the coach and GM’s intellect/or lack thereof? Well truth be told - all that p/o’s me, but what bothers me the most?
That every “Buc fan” board is filled with the blind leading the blind – the same bandwagon supposed “fans” repeating the same crap over and over and over about the current regime/state of the franchise/etc… These were the same illiterate fools that cried for Dungy’s head. The same blind imbiciles that ran Gruden out of town…and they will be the same lame trash that will be hailing the Bucs as “their” team when we once again contend on a regular basis. Whatever happened to “supporting” your team? It’s a good thing they don’t orphan their kids when they fail to be the brightest in the class...though there would certainly be less of a need for all these Soccer mom vehicles on the road if that were the case!
Fact is with a rare few exceptions (NE, PHI, IND) modern Pro Football is a cyclical sport. With good coaching/drafting/FA acquisitions – teams will rise from the ashes (with few exeptions; aka: DET), …contend…either capture the championship,… or gradually sink back to the pack and some further.
The Buc’s started rebuilding in 96’ THRU THE DRAFT and the team reached its zenith with the 2002 SB Championship with a core group of players. Every season had a couple F/A signings to bolster specific areas…not unlike the recent past. The problem with continuity is that gradually your “core group” ages and regardless of how much we love them( ie: M.Alstott, D.Brooks, etc)…their play degrades. So a franchise is left with a “damned if we do….damned if we don’t” decision of keeping them, playing young inexperienced players, or plugging holes with typically overpriced or problem FA’s. Teams that are in this stage (ie: 2008 Buccaneers) have not/will not ever do more than battle for a play-off spot – with no real hope of more than a one and done run.
So knowing full well for the last five seasons they were furiously treading water (ie: Garcia…etc) to stay afloat, they happened to notice sometime in early January 09’ after their (4) game collapse, below the surface of the water they were treading – they no longer had legs! Change was needed…not wanted.
The Bucs had a great, competitive 10-12 year run (especially on the defensive side)...but the team had grown old. The organization made a conscious decision to rebuild following the pattern set in the mid to late 90’s of building thru the draft and getting younger. (BTW….noticing this seems to be a trend this year – teams going younger. Look no further than this year’s purge of the Carolina Panthers…only one player left on the roster over 30 – Steve Smith)
Were mistakes made in hiring of the O&D coordinators last year?...without a doubt! Did the Bucs just pretend that wasn’t the reason and carry on as business as usual?...No! They made corrections (Olsen,Morris) and the team improved. 3-13 may not seem like great improvement – but records aren’t the only way to measure improvement. Those that actually watched – saw many younger players rise up, get much needed experience, (ie: Stroughter, Hayes, Freeman, Smith, Jackson, Talib) gain confidence, and vastly improve their play over the course of the season.
True fans know that although it’d be great – it’s not reality to win the SB every season (check with the half of the league that’s NEVER won one – and some teams never even having been to the game.
So will 2010 be a championship season for the Buccaneers? Most likely not – but I would be extremely surprised if they didn’t continue to grow the team chemistry that’s been started, improve their record markedly, and once again become a team with the chance to win whenever they line up….like the great Herm Edwards says…”that’s why they play the game”….prognosticators and so called “fans” be damned!!!...
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Comments
I liked your Fanpost, and agree wholeheartedly.
Gary Williams for President!
Jordan Williams freshman Manbeast
Bryant Gone, huh?
So not only are we not signing anyone… but our free angents are finding new homes.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 12, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I read this yesterday
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 12, 2010 8:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
oops, didnt mean to post that so quickly
I meant to say I read these exact words yesterday in the comments section of another site (pro football talk maybe?)
I liked it then and I like it now. Just wanted to make sure it is by the same author.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 12, 2010 8:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just found it on PFT
Same username. Its all good. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us Rob. So far you have a 100% chance of winning the contest! Haha
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 12, 2010 8:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Posted it on both sites
Thanks for the good comments…glad you liked it. Go Bucs!
"you play the game to win...."
Well said...
coherent, intelligent commentary with a little humor sprinkled in.
Rec’d
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 12, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well if I used bias, the contest would be over right now!
but I intend to be fair and unbiased.
I agree with your writing completely. As of late, I have learned some lessons on giving people room to bitch for the sake of it. Its frustrating, and I do not discredit anyones opinion.
However, I just feel that the suffering that so many people went though from 83-96 escapes a lot of people. And its not their fault. Its not your fault that you were born later, or moved to the area later, when the Bucs actually became a consistent winning team. We have all become spoiled in a way since 1997, and that is a good thing.
Heck, Im a bandwagon fan myself. I came onboard during the 79 season!
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
Thanks!
I agree about those that were born or became a fan later….point is to be a FAN in good and bad times.
I’ve attended so many games – but aside from the thrill of R.Barber returning the pick for a TD aginst PHI in the championship game to seal it…my most treasured Buc memories were sitting in the stands as the fans tore down the goalposts for the 1st home win ever back in 78’, and again in the stands against KC as a torrential rain fell when we clinched the 1st ever playoff spot in 79’ with a 3-0 win…Awesome!
"you play the game to win...."
oops!…77’ not 78’ against the then St.Louis Cardinals….price of the endzone ticket?….$5!! Priceless!
"you play the game to win...."
Thanks for the correction, I was going to jump that one in there!!
I just missed out on purchasing a ticket from that game, I put in 25 dollar bid but it sold for 32 when I was at work.
I have that 77 Cards game on DVD, and the 79 KC game on Bucs Radio network on CD.
Interested? email me.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 12, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
and for the record...
Rob20819 has been a Bucs fan longer than I have !
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with everything here
Niko cant pick this as the winner. He will never hear the end of it.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
I can remember the suffering of the early Buc years...
and hope to avoid going through it again. Building through the draft is great – but you won’t see the results you desire for 4-5 years. That is assuming you don’t make any mistakes (McCants, Dilfer, Bo Jackson, etc.). Adding quality F/As will speed up that process tremendously. You must have veteran players to show the rookies how its all done, how to prepare, etc. Experience wins over raw talent every time. No one wins with a team full of rookies.
So get on the ball Morris/Dominik, and sign something other than special teams players.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 12, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
I dont know about 4-5 years..
That would be like saying Brooks, Sapp didnt make a difference until 2000. They were dominant players in 97, their 3rd season. Black and Hayes are going into their 3rd season.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 13, 2010 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe so... but Black and Hayes are certainly no Sapp and Brooks.
I doubt they will EVER reach that level of play. Wyche did a heck of a job that year. I hate to sound all “Doomsday-ish”, but this years draft will really decide how much we improve. Its VERY deep with the addition of the underclassmen, most of which would be next years top picks, and if we botch this one, we will not be a very good team in 3 years. Should I say “still” not be a very good team.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 13, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
You are very correct, this is as big a draft as that 95 one, or has the potential to be that is!
And no, I dont feel Hayes and Black are Sapp and Brooks. I do feel that those two come be coming in this year so to speak. But I do think Hayes and Black are going to be our linebackers for some time.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 14, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree...
I actually think Geno is going to be an elite linebacker
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 14, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Im holding you to this.
Continuing head of the Eric Berry and Puffy Rod bandwagon.
New head of the Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!
by Some other guy who does not care on Mar 14, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what I said. they will be our linebackers for some time...
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
As I Said in my post, Im going by a point system for format. Not the content of the message.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 13, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
Well as of right now there are only two candidates, this one and Crackers piece.
Both are good but this one has a better structure and scores higher.
While Keysersoze’s piece looks good, I completely rewrote it for him so that doesnt count.
anyone want to point out a better one from Friday to now, go ahead.
You guys have 6 hours to come up with a better one.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 14, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Your right
Sorry I wanted to write something to get the competition going, but there is nothing to write about these days. All there really is to talk about is the draft, and that has been done many times already.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
Eh, it was a good rant.
But I might be missing the point here. You speak of the blind leading the blind yet in the same breath allude to supporting your team no matter what condition they’re in. And its unfair to call fans bandwagoners just because they’re bitching about the FO/Coaches/Players ect. I was 13 when the Bucs let Dungy go. Even at that young age I could recognize that he was a good coach that just couldn’t pull things together in Tampa. He needed a change of scenery and the Bucs needed a new face. I was adamant about that on the old ESPN boards. Did that make me a blind bandwagoner?
There are some who question the direction of the franchise for legitimate reasons. The ownership thing is more of a non-issue for me simply because owning an NFL franchise is a moneymaker no matter how you slice it. They’re going to do what it takes to sell tickets regardless. The beef I have with the team right now lies more in Morris/Dominik’s ability to prioritize and evaluate talent. Picking Freeman last year showed me a complete disregard for the current roster and the holes that needed to be filled. And that’s fine. I was disappointed because it signaled a complete and total rebuild instead of one that would happen subtly over time by drafting a need and letting older players walk (like the 96 to 02 era so many of you talk about). But between the Clayton contract, Leftwich’s signing and ascension to starter, and the non-move on Antonio Bryant I seriously question the FO’s ability to put together a competitive team. Maybe they’ll prove me wrong and I really hope they do. But I just don’t think they have a clue.
by Vin on Mar 12, 2010 11:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Vin, I think a slow rebuild would have been a great thing to have had occur in 2004 when we had our second consecutive losing season..
And I think it actually was happening. Cadillac, Alex Smith, Dan Buenning was a good guard and Ruud. But for some reason, probably because we actually started winning in 05 instead of losing and continuing the rebuild, we went towards a FA spree to fast.
Was it pressure Gruden/Allen felt to win now? Chris Simm’s injury didn’t help anything either. He seemed to start out slow then catch on. He was catching on in that Carolina game week three when he lost his spleen.
2006 would have been another chance to start the rebuilding process while still having some veteran talent to help out.
But by 2009, all the vets were just too old.
There is no way Raheem and Dominik get complete pass for 2009. They made mistakes, some Big ones. Time will tell if they learned from them.
I think Dungy learned from his mistakes, and I think Gruden has learned some too. I see no reason to give our two current guys a year or two so they can have their chance to learn from theirs.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 13, 2010 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
OOPS, last sentence above should read " I see no reason NOT to give our two guys.....
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 13, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree with any of this
Although I think Gruden and Allen were drafting for the present more than the future (taking a guy they wanted instead of the best player available), but that’s strictly an opinion and a fine line either way.
I’m not calling for Morris and Dominik to get fired. Not at all. One thing that annoys me about the NFL today is how easily a coach can be fired after one draft and one year of implementing his system. Its absurd. But I’m not going to boast optimism or give praise until there’s reason to. Faine and Winslow were great pickups in my opinion and getting a 2nd rd pick for Adams was impressive. Three guys from last years draft will probably start next year (Freeman, Miller, K. Moore), that’s something. Stroughter might make that 4. Hell 5 if Biggers ascends to the nickelback role. Mark Bradley was a good waiver pickup if you ask me. He’s got drop issues but he still beat the pants off Clayton last year. On the other side of the coin, going with Leftwich over McCown was a miserable idea. Signing Ward was pointless as I still think Graham is the best RB on the roster, especially for a young QB (his blocking and ability to get open as a checkdown is worlds above anyone else we have). Straying away from the Cover 2, ect. ect. I’m sure you’ve heard all this ad nauseum. I’ll agree that they started fixing a lot of thing mid season but I’m still cautious.
They could still cut Clayton. They could have a fantastic draft. They could sign a viable SS. Who knows? It’s still early in the offseason and I’m a very patient fan. I hope they impress me. But you can’t argue they’ve given fans plenty of reason to doubt their plan.
Getting a 2nd round pick for Gaines Adams might be the Kazmir for Zambrano of the Bucs FO...
and not because he is dead. There is nothing that Adams had shown on the field in the NFL to warrant a second rounder. Arizona couldn’t get a second rounder for Boldin. Dominik for executive of the year!
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 13, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Before we cannonize Dominik for pulling a fast one on the Bears...
lets see what he actually does with the pick first. Hopefully we won’t end up with a sack full of magic beans.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 13, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Very sound argument VIN that is as true as it gets.
The only positives I see are the changing of the defense when Morris took over (which never should have happened in the first place) and the two wins of thee games at the end, of which both were on the road.
Those to me are things to get excited about, that and the play of rookie Josh Freeman.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 14, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You asked for it, and now they just picked up our new SS from Phili.
Nice
Gary Williams for President!
Jordan Williams freshman Manbeast
I agree with about 98% of what you say Vin. The only difference is I don't believe Morris and Dom deserved or earned their positions, and really shouldn't be there.
Of course that is my opinion and I’m very vocal about it. Yes I am very worried about the direction of this team, and it does not make me any less of a fan because I voice my concerns.
HIBERNATION NATION
Here here...
I second the above statement wholeheartedly. Working you way through the organization hardly makes you an personnel expert. Speaking as a fan, it might make you the luckiest guy in the world.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 13, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
When you say Personnel expert, Im assuming you mean Dominik.
Working your way through the organization as a ticket salesman, then getting your way up to GM I would say you have a point. But Dominik has been doing THIS TYPE OF WORK since he came here in 1995, and has learned from some of the best: guys who have built the Seahawks and Bears into Superbowl teams for starters. So far the talent evaluation from Dominik has been MILES AWAY better than the last regime, with the one case of Clayton as an exception, but that was brought on by the last regime anyways, so touche’.
As for Raheem Morris, he HAS earned his chance to become a head coach. You dont earn a chance by being a head coach, nor is it written anywhere that you have to be an OC or DC first. Several position coaches climb the ladder straight to HC, especially when they are seen as excellent motivators and players coaches.
There are many ways to coach in the NFL, no one way has ever been proven to be better than the other. We have seen Stoic coaches (Landry, Noll, Dungy) and very emotional ones too (Vermeil, Parcells, Ditka) win Super Bowls too. What DOES matter is the players respect the coach and buy into the system. That the players are not running the team, that the Coach is. You can show me nothing that would indicate the Bucs quit on Morris or do not listen to him.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 14, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
How have they earned their positions? What have they DONE?
Morris is one of the least experienced head coaches in the history of the NFL and his lack of experience has really showed. These guys being hired was purely a cost cutting move, period.
HIBERNATION NATION
Dominik is creating his legacy right now...
and Morris’ head will be on the chopping block – but probably not Dominiks. He may survive the next coaching turnover, where Morris will definitely not. No one seems to be questioning the popularity of Morris with his players – I am questioning his ability to make sound football decisions regarding personnel, preparation and game calling. He IS incredibly inexperienced in the ways of commanding an entire team, and it really really shows. I am happy that you may feel he is improving, but why must we hand it ALL over to a guy who gets to cut his teeth and gain his coaching experience as our season flops around like a fish on the pier?
Most head coaches have been coordinators in the NFL OR have run a football program at the collegiate level. Very few jump from being one of the assistants directly to head coach, no matter how promising the appear. I will continue to believe it was done to watch the bottom line and maintain the status quo.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 14, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The following is patently false...
“Most head coaches have been coordinators in the NFL OR have run a football program at the collegiate level. Very few jump from being one of the assistants directly to head coach, no matter how promising the appear.”
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 14, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I can name some..
Check out todays story!
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions
you cant tell me we had a 3-13 season because of Raheem Morris.
And we do not know who was responsible for the OC and DC fiascos.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Niko, are you attempting to say...
that Raheem Morris doesn’t assemble his own coaching staff? I was not right there in the room when it happened, but I can’t imagine him not interviewing candidates for the positions he is responsible for. If you are trying to separate Dominik and Morris for some reason, fine. But as of right now, you will have some difficulty doing this as we have no real way of knowing. The line is kinda fuzzy between them regarding who does what. They are inexplicably linked together. Well, at least until Morris doesn’t produce enough wins on the field.
I suspect Dominik, at that time, may find a little space between them.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 15, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Morris made some game losing decisions, we had the some chances to win a few more games than we did.
One decision that cost us games was pulling Lefty, and of course there were plenty of timing issues like kicking field goals at the end of the half on third down with 20 seconds on the clock and so on.
As far as not being responsible for the OC & DC, until the Bucs are owned by Al Davis or Jerry Jones who pick the staff themselves, the head coach has say in his staff.
HIBERNATION NATION
******
cheap
/horse
/dead
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 14, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
again, for the 30th time,
paying two coaches is NOT a cost cutting move. Do you decide to buy a second car while your paying for the 1st and say your saving money?
And they earned their positions by the work they have done before hand. Raheem has shown results from his previous position. Dominik is the Senior most assistant, and was the only likely person to be promoted.
Only time will settle this argument,
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 4:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So true...
I’m not saying that paying two coaches is a cost cutting move. What I am saying is that when the braintrust decided to cut loose Jon Gruden while there was still guaranteed time left on his contract (Mistake #1) they chose to promote Morris to fill the HC vacancy (Mistake #2). By hiring Raheem Morris INSTEAD of tracking down a more experienced and suitable HC – they saved money. The difference between what they pay Raheem Morris (1 million?) and what it would have cost to bring in a true HC candidate (several million) is the cost cutting. We can all read how and why the Glazers are cash strapped and my opinion is that Morris is simply proof of that.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 15, 2010 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I understand your point now Cracker Ball,
and Apologize If I didnt get it before.
We were probably both frustrating the heck out of each other LOL!
I will be much happier, along with every other Bucs fan, when this high interest loan(s) paid.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Did get a good idea for a lead story though :)
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
What CB said is exactly my point.
They obviously did not want Gruden here anymore, so they let him go. So if they were to bring in Shanahan ($10 million a year) or Cohwer ($10 million a year), then they’d be spending $17 million a year on a head coach. Morris is getting something around $1 million I believe, and I don’t think there are any if many coaches making any less than that. So if you look at $17 million vs $8 million, yes, Morris is a cost cutting move.
I am not a huge Cohwer fan, but I do think is a hell of a coach, and something tells me he’s coming here, just a hunch though.
HIBERNATION NATION
No worries Niko...
you are a knowledgeable guy and you love the Bucs. We don’t have to always agree and I respect your opinions.
And your spanikopita.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 15, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
you really dont want him.
Id take a chance on another hot young prospect that a retread. They almost never work out, except the very very best. And all those years in Pitt, and only one SB, he is not one of the very best.
Besides, the rebuilding would start all over again. Trust me, Cowher was a rumor put out by his own people. The Bucs NEVER talked to Cowher.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 15, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How could you possibly know that Niko?
If you’ve got contacts that high up in the front office then I demand you ask them what dirt Clayton has on them? haha
Even if they did talk to Cowher they would never admit it until after Raheem is gone. Recent history has shown that they have no problem lying to their fan base, and I wouldn’t expect them to be honest on such a touchy subject to begin with.
As far as not being one of the best: I have to disagree. In those fifteen years with Pitt, Cowher only had three losing seasons. The lowest win total was six wins, which is double Raheem’s first year. Cowher also brought home nine division championships. I would love to have that consistency and that is what our “rebuilding” is all about. I don’t think any of us expect to win the super bowl every year, but would simply be happy if we were perennially in the hunt.
Not to mention the fact that Pittsburgh is/was pretty frugal with their player salaries, often letting guys walk rather than re-signing them. Cowher routinely built his team through the draft and competed for his division every year he was there. Seems like he would be a great fit to me.
"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by LeeCaz on Mar 15, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I still have hopes that all of this CBA stuff will get worked out
and we get a rookie salary cap. The players make MORE than enough salary right now, and the owners are the ones taking all the business risks – and SHOULD be compensated as such.
Which means we can go out and get Cowher with all the extra dough! Yay! Go Bucs : )
by Cracker Ball on Mar 15, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrec'd.
And yes CB, that means Rec’d.
Continuing head of the Eric Berry and Puffy Rod bandwagon.
New head of the Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!
by Some other guy who does not care on Mar 15, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh missed the playoffs three years in a row under Cowher...
you guys would have him fired after the second!! LOL
No patience!
And I say they didnt talk to him because the only person who DID say they talked to him was one person. Thats it.
Meanwhile, and actual source that is close to the Glazers said they never talked to him. So obviously it was a ploy by the Cowher people to get his name out there.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 19, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
PS - Cowher is not some scrub re-tread of a coach
as he left PIT on the top of his game. Plenty of fiery coaching left in the chin. With all due respect to Tony Dungy, I much prefer my Head Coach to get all up in somebodies face that try to be a cool pal. Exactly why Dungy was replaced with Gruden. He added fire…
by Cracker Ball on Mar 15, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Expect Gruden
had to get in the faces of old vets. I don’t think that was a winning combo.
Continuing head of the Eric Berry and Puffy Rod bandwagon.
New head of the Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!
by Some other guy who does not care on Mar 15, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt he got in anybody's face, but he lit the fire that Dungy just couldn't light.
I miss the scowl and excitement Gruden brought here. I love to see the coach have passion and love for the game and show disappointment and anger when things go bad. Cowher would be fun to watch on the sideline, no doubt about that.
HIBERNATION NATION
Good point.
Continuing head of the Eric Berry and Puffy Rod bandwagon.
New head of the Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!
by Some other guy who does not care on Mar 15, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Dungy and Gruden. What I liked about Dungy was we may not have made it to the SB, but after that first year we were always in the hunt. Coaching is like managing, some people respond better to some styles. We will never really know if Dungy would have got the job done that next year or not, just like we will never know if Gruden would have lead the Raiders to the SB if he had stayed. I just hope we return to a constant contender.
I don't think Dungy would have put the offense together like Gruden did, patchwork or not, it got the job done.
I also don’t think Dungy gets a ring if he didn’t have Manning either. Dungy did however, get the right people, coaches and players on the defensive side of the ball, and we wouldn’t have got our SB with it either. Good combination of the two would be a great thing, lol.
HIBERNATION NATION
Gruden slid into an already made team
Dungy was the man. I’d give anything to have the defensive-minded Cowher at the helm.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
WR Reggie Brown???
So I just read we picked up Reggie Brown from the Eagles almost 2 weeks ago… and read alittle about him… and I am asking myself, why? Why did we sign him?
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 20, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW, Porter signed with the Cardinals.
UGH! Kept my mouth shut. But I was hoping someone in the front office was secretly gonna call him in for a try out.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 20, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Why get Joey Porter?
He’s old, he won’t be around for much longer, and our LB corps has a lot of potential and quality already.
He would create competition fora position
Competition for ANY position only elevates level of play. Pushes people to do work harder and play better. Who cares if good young people already occupy a position, as it would force them to play even better. Joey porter is not one to just sit idly by and collect a paycheck. He would call people out that weren’t playing hard, just like LB Hardy Nickerson did for us back in his day.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't have to be a fully guaranteed
contract like our pal Claytons. Pay big incentives to winning the starting job, add performance clauses, etc. Job competition at ANY position is a good thing.
That’s exactly how good teams get better.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You're acting like Joey Porter would just sign any contract to come play here
Look at the contract he got in Arizona, do you really think he’d be worth that? Because that’s what we’d have to pay him, not an incentive-laden contract with few guarantees.
Then ask yourself if he’d really be worth that money if you’re just bringing him in to add competition, not because you think there’s a big hole at his position.
Your logic (competition is good so bring in as much as you can) leads to basically wanting to pick up any player in FA you can.
I'm acting like money talks...
unless Porter had his heart set on ARI. No, I do not want to pick up ANY free agent, but Joey Porter, in spite of his big mouth, is still a very serviceable veteran with tread left on his tires. He forces others around him to play better. Yeah, you’re probably right – we don’t need that.
The Glazers HAVE the money to add some quality and simply choose not to.
Stop sticking up for tightwad profit-mongers!
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Joey Porter does not even come close to fitting our defense.
He is a 3-4 LB. He could play defensive end for us, thats how big he is.
I think he has some stuff left, but he would do nothing in our defense except put a hand down and r ush from the line.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly how much money did Joey Porter get?
because the financial terms were not released. He could rush the passer from the end or possibly play in the middle instead of Ruud.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
and when he couldn't beat anyone out...
you would complain about how they spent money on an old LB who doesn’t fit our system.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 22, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If he slid into a ready made team, why was half the offense replaced?
The DEFENSE was ready made, and even that was starting to fall apart.
The Bucs never would have won the Superbowl without Jon Gruden.
They Never would have won the Superbowl WITH Tony Dungy, but never would have won it without him either.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Dungy took the team as far as HE could have
but lacked the fiery intensity that Jon Gruden brought. The price to actually bring Gruden here was very high (the next 2 1st round picks) so that combined with the inevitable picking of the carcass after a Superbowl made his job very difficult.
Sam Wyche, Tony Dungy AND Jon Gruden made the Superbowl win possible. Without any of them contributing what they did, we would have not been there. That is why what Morris does is now so important for the future direction of this team. This years draft WILL be the cornerstone in our next Superbowl run, just like the Wyche choices with Sapp, Brooks and Lynch were. Whether Morris is actually here to see it happen, or not, is debatable. But the better job he does now, the quicker we get back to the promised land.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Fiery intensity?
Really? I remember reading a bit by Warren Sapp, saying that with Dungy he managed to motivate people with real emotion, and with Gruden it got over the top and fake. As spectators we all like to see the fiery coaches, but great coaching works regardless of disposition. Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, or the 2 Super Bowl coaches this year – those aren’t coaches that have fiery intensity.
What Gruden added to the 2002 team was a halfway capable offense. 1999 was a Super Bowl quality team too, if there had been any kind of competent offense.
regardless, Gruden DID have an intensity, and all that fake stuff was later on..
first year, EVERYONE was buying into Gruden.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure how much credit I would give Sam, and how much I would give McKay for Sapp/Brooks..
but it did happen under his watch..and a few other players were still around too like Hardy and Lynch, and even more.
Id give Gruden 50%, Dungy 40% and McKay/Wyche 10%.
How does that sound?
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry. I totall disagree.
Chucky did nothng for our team. The shell was built. Our team has alwas been built on defense first, Defense wins games. He added patchwork which Dungy would have completed. By the time Dungy was ousted, which I cry foul, I could have coached the team to the Super Bowl.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 20, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That is silly bunny bun bun..
The defense couldnt beat Phily in 2 playoff games. YOu need offense too, not just defense.
1) the defense was starting to decline under dungy after the 99 NFC CHampionship game. by 2001, the defense was no better than a good one. Ranked 9th in 2000.
2) It was the OFFENSE that put us in the superbowl, not just the defense. Again, the defense alone could not get us a win at phily, but with an offense that kicked in right on time in late Dec, It put more points up vs the 49ers, Eagles and Raiders, than every other Bucs playoff team, EVER….COMBINED! Add it up…
1979)24+0=24 1981) 0=24 1982) 17=41 1997)20+7=68 1999)14+6=88 2000)3=91 2001 9=100 100 Points scored in every playoff game ever in Bucs history.
In 2002, SF 31+ Phily 27 + Oak 48 = 106! 106 Points in 2002—-more than every other Bucs year combined.
It was Gruden’s offense. Period.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
and sorry about the Bun Bun, I love rabbits, thats what I used to call mine :)
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Brad Johnson was the veteran we needed
to guide the ship. His experience made ALL the difference in our Superbowl victory. Whether you like Gruden or not is irrelevant. He tweaked what needed to be tweaked and got it done.
Do not disrespect the ONLY guy that ever won us a Superbowl.
You have no possible argument that can top that. Dungy DID a great job adding to what Wyche left for him. He got us very close but we did not appear to play “pissed off”. That is what Chucky brought. Attitude.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Brad Johnson was already here under DUNGY..
the replaced offense was Michael Pittman (great Superbowl offensive stats), Joe Jurvicus (SF and PHI playoff wins) Roman Oben and Kerry Jenkins, whole left side of the line, Keenan McCardell, Ken Dilger, Ricky Dudley, I mean come on, our receiving corps went from Keyshawn, Jaquez Green and Karl Williams to Key, Keenan McCardell and Joe Jurivicus! Our Tight Ends in 2001 were Dave Moore and Patrick Hape! in 2002— Ken DIlger and Ricky Dudley. Add them up, thats over half the offense replaced from 01 to 02.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 20, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
ok. maybe i didn't chucky enough credit.
ugh! But I couldn’t stand the dude. I loved Dungy. Really can’t stand Morris, truth be told. And would kill to have Cowher.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 21, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If you liked Dungy, to me, Morris is more like Dungy than either Cowher or Gruden...
…and Im not talking about color either.
Im talking about their message…of practicing fundamentals, working on the little things, the details. Thats what Dungy was all about. He preached when he came here about being a man, being responsible, and when the team bought it, it all fell into place. That team was behind Dungy, and they are behind Morris too.
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 21, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
That's true
But Morris is clearly a lot more jittery and inexperienced than Dungy was. Dungy had years upon years of coordinator experience, Morris has none.
Maybe Morris learns, but he’s not close to Dungy for now.
I was gonna say...
Morris and Dungy may have similar personalities, but the comparison ends right there. Dungy had “light years” more experience as a coach and player. He knew his stuff AND had proven it.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 21, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
yes as you watch all our linebackers and defensive linemen become worthless because Cowher only runs a 3-4 defense...
so how many drafts would it take to restock completely new D linemen and linebackers? with owners that have no money to spend?
lets let one plan play itself out first before we start another ……
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 19, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
D lineman for the 3-4 aren't that hard to find.
Big Fat Guys always do the trick.
I was the head of the Eric Berry bandwagon- Im sad to say its over.
Puffy Rod's Bandwagon continues forever.
New head of the Matthew Barnaby Bandwagon!!!
by Some other guy who does not care on Mar 20, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
You should tell the Chiefs that
I’m sure they’d be happy to know they can get the people they need easily.
With 15 teams now running a 3-4, finding 3-4 defensive players isn’t any easier (and arguably harder because there are tighter restrictions on what you need) than finding 4-3 players.
I can not believe the amount of disrespect for Cowher
IMHO we should be on our knees begging for Cowher. Cowher gets it done. His defenses have always been play makers! Ironically Dungy and Cowher are 2 of my favorite coaches of al time.
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 20, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want to praise Cowher's defense
then we should be going after Dick Lebeau. He has run the Steeler’s defense for the last 329402983 years. Not Cowher, not Tomlin, Lebeau.
Cowher would bring to this team
what Chucky brought to the 2002 team. Fire. Intensity. Attitude. He makes the entire team glad he is on your side, and happy they don’t have to play against him.
by Cracker Ball on Mar 20, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Coulda cried when Kiffin left
I’d take Lebeau
by lilbunnywabbitt on Mar 21, 2010 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
kind of like Raheem?
Top Draft needs 2010: DT, WR, DE
by Niko Houllis on Mar 19, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly...
a few comments up he said that Raheem’s personality is like Dungy. They couldn’t be farther apart when it comes to personality.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Similar COACHING personalities...
as in quiet, unemotional and cerebral players coaches that remain on an even keel. The opposite of a Mike Ditka, Cowher, Parcells, etc. I don’t know either one of them personally so I couldn’t comment on how they act away from football.
Similar coaching personalities...
or similar schemes. Schemes, yes. Personalities, no. Dungy was as stoic as they come, while Rah is quite animated.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Mar 24, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions

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