Carolina upset with Aqib Talib hit on Jimmy Clausen
ESPN is reporting that Head Coach John Fox is blaming quarterback Jimmy Clausen's concussion on cornerback Aqib Talib diving head first into the pile in the final play of the game on Sunday. Steve Smith then hit Talib and some pushing and shoving occurred after the play. Fox says they will be sending a tape of the play to the league offices. Hopefully nothing comes of this, but if Talib is found culpable he may be looking at a hefty fine.
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If there was helmet to helmet contact then a fine may be inevitable...
…but the play hadn’t been whisteled dead yet, right?
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
Thats because you stated the question like you were trying to justify what happened.
But no, I dont know if it was late.
you misread my intention
i just wanted to know whether the play was dead or not.
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
What goes around comes around Kitty Kats !!!
Signed Clifton Smith
by skunk5150 on Nov 15, 2010 3:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So what you're saying is...
A bang-bang play on a kick return while the game is still in the balance and a cheap shot on a defenseless QB in garbage time are the same thing?
Yeah, that sounds about right.
/sarcasm
(And for the record, I didn’t approve of the hit on C. Smith either.)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Bang-bang play?
No, that was your gunner purposefully launching himself into a called fair catch. That was just stupid of him.
And there are two things about the Talib hit that don’t make it dirty:
1. It was before the whistle and he threw in his weight to keep Clausen from crossing the goalline
2. It wasn’t helmet to helmet, it was shoulder to helmet on a ballcarrier.
there is a big deferance.
Clifton Smith was completely defenseless and Clausen was trying to push his way into the endzone.
Exactly….anyone who thinks that hit on Peanut was clean…is an idiot !
by skunk5150 on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A common response I've seen from Bucs fans...
“Oh, but the whistle didn’t blow yet!! Golly!” Hahaha!
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 16, 2010 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
Please don't call the hit on Clifton Smith a bang-bang play.
That is just pure ignorance. It was dirty and cheap.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Nope.
Bang bang play
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
I wish your parents weren't siblings.
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
The feral cat fans are always ignorant
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
Garbage time having your QB run the ball up the middle
GOOD PLAY CALL!
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Maybe you should check your coach to see if he got a concussion
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
We've tried everything. Still can't figure out the mystery of Gump Davidson.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Let them hit each other is fine....
But let them go helmet to helmet is not fine.
It was a dirty play, and Talib should be fined for it.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Dude, there is nothing you can do there….you jump into the pile to hit the ball carrier…he moves just so slightly and boom helmets hit…..its not like he came on a blitz and put his crown into Jimmy’s mouth !
by skunk5150 on Nov 16, 2010 2:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't there a pile of fat-asses there already?
As if a cornerback jumping on to the top of the pile(with his head) would be the “Old Spice Play of the Game!” Was it really that necessary? No, the pile wasn’t moving… anywhere. Since his efforts MUST be justified and awarded in the eyes of his fans… I offer this:
Talib,
Good job for the extra effort! I’m sure your contribution made a huge impact on the success of your team. I don’t think they could’ve done it without you. Matter of fact, if you weren’t there Talib… Jimmy might of pushed through the big 800-pound pile of man in front of him. He’s an agile fella… especially when he’s laying in the middle of a pile; forward progress stopped and all. But heck no! Whhhhaaammm!! Like a little baby goat full of angst, you were there! Talib, you showed them! “Flying through the air with the greatest of ease, fist clenched, head down, I’m the amazing Talib!” I’m sure the Tampa Bayian’s… err.. Bayites.. Bayon’s? yeah.. WILL sing your praises for many generations to come. Keep diving on them piles Talib, keep diving. …Only you can make that difference.
Love,
SwankTheTank
Is that better? or at least what the Buck-a-roo faithful want to hear? I think y’all should print this out and frame it. Haha!
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 16, 2010 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
With Logic Like This
It’s no wonder you guys are 1-8. According to you Talib should have thought: “I think I’ll take the play off and let my defensive line take care of this one. I mean after all they’ve just done a real bang up job all year giving up the most run yards in the league!” I mean, come on, Goodson might be lucky to gain 100 more yards the remainder of this year and we made him look like a super hero. In Tampa Bay, the DB’s play run too. They have to.
I think shutting down your only receiver was the greater contribution.
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
How many times have you seen a guy score on second effort ?
Look its no Talibs fault Claussen is a piece of glass, when was the last time you didn’t hear about him being hurt….its also not his fault that your coach was too dumb to use his) instead of qb to get the yard…..
Oh and mans game Jimmy !!!
by skunk5150 on Nov 17, 2010 1:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
So, let's say you still won...
And we brought Wesley back to NAIL Freeman in the back of the head while he’s on the ground. Ol’ Raheem would be preparing a tape. So quit trying to justify Aliqu Malik Tuheeb Talib’s actions. He was a douche in the Big 12 and he’s a douche in the NFC South. Simple as that…
Cheers… :)
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 15, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
You are a douche.
and a sore loser to boot. Talib was not taking a cheap shot since the whistle hadn’t blown and Jimmy was still trying to push for the end zone.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Haha! Ohhhhh... okay...
A douche? I am truly saddened and emotionally injured. You should feel warm and tingly inside. Hahaha!
Either way, it is what it is. I was watching Talib long before he was a Buck-a-roo. Find me something that shows he’s a classy head-diving defender and I’ll shut up. :)
I’m not too worried anyway. We sure as hell aren’t making the playoffs. This has been socially accepted. And well, you aren’t making playoffs. So, we’ll see ya next year! Yay!
PS I do believe the Saints and Falcons have your number… :) …douche. Hehehehe!
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
Uh huh
Yeah, the Falcons sure creamed us. FYI, they stopped us with a goal line stand in the final minute. They sure have our number. Wait till they have to play on grass. Now, the Saints…you might have a point there.
Seriously though, we play the 49ers, Ravens, Seahawks, Redskins, Lions, Falcons, and Saints. If we get that extra yard against the Falcons next time, I can easily see 10-6 if not 11-5 there. I can see as low as 8-8 as well, which would have to be considered an achievement considering some football writers were predicting another 3-13 season.
I do feel bad for you guys. I expected a lot more before the season began.
We expected a lot more too...
Haha! Inner-turmoil, shit personnel decisions(pissing the HC off) and having a tight-assed owner will murder a team. Don’t know where the hell our O-Line went… Did we purge our confidence with our vets?
The Bucs are doing way better than expected given what you went through last year. Seems we have hit our own “youth movement.” Even though I have bitched and bickered of the Tampa Bay brethren, y’all have unexpectedly thrusted yourselves into the scene. I can’t really say anything negative to that.
With credit given where do, I still am not a Talib fan. And I won’t be. But that’s for me to have fun with. Your reply was more civil than most and I do hope this was received the same.
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 16, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Since you've been watching Talib
you should know he was freshman of the year, 2 time 1st team Big 12, and an unanimous All-American, voted by the coaches. Oh and this year? He’s 2nd in the NFL in interceptions and is looking forward to a vacation in Hawaii. You generally don’t become so highly regarded by your peers or so successful by being cheap or not classy (like San Diego).
I only called you funny names lightly because I assumed you were just projecting your team’s inadequacies on to the nearest target. I actually wasn’t just taking a “cheap shot”.
You will see the Bucs in the Playoffs. I’m going to go ahead and bet they’ll play the Packers in the first round. Winner gets to say: Nana Nanna Boo Boo.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 16, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Off topic
Some have postulated that Jon Gruden could part of the Panthers coaching search.
Hypothetically if that were to occur would you still use ‘chuckyforpres’ as your username?
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
He seems to like the booth, I'm not so sure he'll go back to coaching, for a while at least.
Right now he’s getting paid by the Bucs and ESPN to watch football and have time to spend with his wife and kids, something he’s never got to do before, plus he’s already held the trophy. What else is there for him to prove? Of course he’s a passionate guy and loves the game, and if he came back, I don’t see him going to Carolina, and you really don’t want him rebuilding your team.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
hahaha
My username is really meant to be more sarcastic than honest. He did give us a superbowl which I love him for but he has also always been a bit overrated and a little (a lot) narcissistic.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 17, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Aqib was trying to knock Clausen out
yeah he hit him on the head but he was just trying to keep him out of the end zone. If he’s fined he’s fined.
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
he was obviously just trying to keep him out of the endzone, what bothers me is that if carolina wins there would be no tape to be sent to the league or nobody would be complaining
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 15, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
How so?
If Carolina won they would still be the team with the concussed starting QB due to a helmet to helmet shot.
The repercussions last beyond game day, and therefore it warrants having the league look into it.
If Talib is innocent the NFL will find him so, no harm no foul. If I’m to intuit correctly you seem bothered by the fact the league are forced to take notice, which to me indicates you believe the possibility of wrongdoing. Clearly spurious claims don’t need any defense.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
They would have still complained, regardless of the outcome of the game.
Trust me, John Fox isn’t going to complain to the league because we lost the game. If so, he would be doing that every week, and he hasn’t.
It was a dirty play by a dirty player, and he should be punished by the league for it.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Let's also not forget that it was a garbage time play.
There was nothing to be gained by Talib by diving in. Was the game on the line? Was Clausen going to get in? Did he hit him helmet to helmet? That all has to be taken into account.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 15, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah let's just roll over and give up a touchdown with 7 seconds to go
Wait, let’s not.
The whistle hadn’t blown and he tried to get Clausen out of the endzone. Moreover, Clausen was not a QB in the pocket or a defenseless receiver, he was a ballcarrier.
same here
I guess we were supposed to just let Clausen waltz into the end zone
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
A dirty play by a dirty player?
It was a pile up on the goal line for gods sake give me a break!
RUN THE BALL ON FIRST DOWN!!!!!!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 15, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
A pile up on the goal line in garbage time. He led with his helmet and hit the QB helmet-to-helmet. It was a dirty play. Him doing it intentionally makes him a dirty player.
It’s really not that hard to figure out.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Or maybe your player shouldn't launch himself helmet first?
I suppose there’s no end to your rationalizations?
Actually, we did do that.
Can’t argue with you on that one.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
No no... Not our coach...
It was Jeff… He is a dick. Not a coach. :)
"Jeff Davidson, the reiteration of retardation..." -Chuck Swank
by SwankTheTank on Nov 16, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
what?
How come all the good/hard hitting players are considered dirty? Good god man this isn’t pee-wee football.
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
Good/hard hitting is great...
Leading with one’s helmet is not.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
yeah ok
what was he supposed to do, lead with his feet?!
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
It's called a shoulder.
You know, it’s that area just below the head.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I just watched it again a dozen times
Talib clearly leads with his shoulder and should not be fined.
Sean Jones leads with his head and looks for Clausen’s head. He’s the one who should be fined.
oh
so that’s what they call it.
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
He hit him with his shoulder for as far as I can tell
If anything, the hit just before that by Sean Jones was a helmet to helmet hit, that one is more likely to be fined than the Talib hit. And rightfully so.
A dirty PLAYER?
Please explain this one to me.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Dirty Player, No
If you want to call it a dirty play, I’m not going to get into that. But honestly, since I have watched him, I cannot remember any other plays that came close to that play, and I don’t think he aimed for the helmet. You got any other plays in mind to brand him a “dirty player”?
lol!
Give me a break! It is never garbage time lol, if thats the case why even finish the game out. Why not just end the game and call the Bucs the winners? No, you play four quarters of hard fought football and to suggest Talib, Jones, or any Buc should try less/give up a score because of “garbage time” is ignorant and foolish. If he hit em helmet to helmet it’s a fine so be it, but when your running and jumping upward onto a pile to push a player back and really the only part showing is his upper body chances are you may hit his head. He did what he had to do to on a play that wasn’t blown dead and i’m sure it was not intentional. Deal.
We're not saying he should have let him score.
But his diving into Clausen was unnecessary.
And I’d say a 15 point lead with less than a minute to go would definitely qualify as garbage time. You guys should know plenty about it, since you’ve practically sucked for 75% of your existence.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
If you score a touchdown there you have about 10 seconds to recover an onside kick and run a hail mary
Is it unlikely? Yes. Still want to prevent a touchdown there.
lol
That’s borderline impossible. But I agree that you still don’t want to give up a TD.
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
You're obviously not familiar with our offensive coaching staff.
I call our OC “Gump” for a reason, lol.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
U MAD
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
by SRQman on Nov 15, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pro Tip...
That works if you’re the Saints. If it’s been more than five years since you’ve tasted SB glory, not so much…
I think the dig was more like:
Look what the Panthers have NEVER achieved. Who’s done more sucking?
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Says the team who still owns the record for most consecutive losses in NFL history...
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Wait, we got another NFL title?
I thought the Lions stole that from us anyway?
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm .... no
Your 26 straight losses is still safe.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Least we in the books for something cool.
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Being old enough to remember every game
Back in 1976, the Seahawks and Bucs got nothing but the worst kind of castoffs through the expansion draft. Carolina and Jacksonville were babied, and the rules changed requiring teams to give up quality players. Suffer through players like Steve Spurrier, Parnell Dickinson, Terry Hanratty, Essex Johnson, Ed Williams, etc… All were washed up. You guys got some quality players to start with. So that remark is simply unfair. :)
I got the intent...
It just isn’t effective when the trophies in the case are covered in dust. Also, if the Bucs were the Jags (i.e. part of our expansion class), that might have been more effective…
It might be another 25 years before you get another win
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 15, 2010 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nah, we're gonna kick your asses next year. :-)
Worst to first, baby. Isn’t that how it goes in the NFC South?
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Bucs overall record vs Panthers
12-9
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
oops Panters
w/e it don’t matter. It’s late
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Oh what's that?
The feral cats never won a Super Bowl? What a shame.
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
+10
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
How many Championships do the Panthers have?
Josh Freeman will be better than Matt Ryan, not so sure about Drew Brees!!
Those who live in glass houses
should not throw stones. Watch what franchise you’re saying has sucked, guy.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Sour grapes much?
If it was garbage time, why didn’t the kitties just take a knee?
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I can't even begin to understand or defend why our OC does anything.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
From Clausen's immediate reaction after the play it's pretty clear that was not the play on which he suffered the concussion
You don’t suffer a concussion, then immediately get up and get in someone’s face.
by Sander on Nov 15, 2010 5:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
exactly
"1 - 2 - Freddy's coming for you, 3 - 4 - Better lock your door, 5 - 6 - Grab your crucifix, 7 - 8 - Better stay up late, 9 - 10 - Never sleep again..."
+1
for being basically the only one here with common sence
by martycame2party on Nov 15, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know much about concussions do you?
Symptoms are often not obvious for some time later. Shows how much everyone here replying cared to research your post and how little you really know about concussions. Matt Moore was concussed earlier in the year and he didn’t exhibit any outward symptoms for about 30 mins. or so. You’re all so quick to try to excuse Talib’s thuggery that you don’t even take 2 minutes to see if what Sander says is even remotely accurate.
Also this isn't excusing Talib in any sense
As I don’t think a resulting injury should determine whether a play is illegal or not.
On this I agree 100%
One of the league’s main problems is that the fines have been too reactionary based on injuries sustained rather than each case being valued on it’s own merit. Should the league rule in the Panthers favor I see no reason for it to be say a $30,000 fine vs. a $10,000 one if Clausen wasn’t injured.
Playes and fans are having to play catch-up on what exactly the NFL’s standard are when it comes to these hits, and despite the league producing a nice, clear-cut video more often than not the hits on Sunday aren’t falling into clear guidelines.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Certainly a player getting hurt...
in and of itself is no reason for a penalty, fine, etc. However, if it is determined that a player has done something to disciplinary action, then certainly the results of their behavior (e.g. an injury) should be taken into account.
Also, Talib was trying to initiate helmet to helmet, and then concussed Clausen. I’d say that’s pretty thuggish, wouldn’t you?
No, because Talib was not trying to hit him helmet to helmet
That was shoulder to helmet. The Sean Jones hit just half a second before that certainly was helmet-to-helmet and intentional and deserves a fine, but Talib did nothing wrong on that play.
And no, it doesn’t matter if the result is an injury. What matters is the process. Injuries are largely incidental and relatively random, basing punishment on injuries would similarly lead to a rather random process of penalties.
No, because Talib was not trying to hit him helmet to helmet
You have your opinion and I have mine.
And no, it doesn’t matter if the result is an injury. What matters is the process. Injuries are largely incidental and relatively random, basing punishment on injuries would similarly lead to a rather random process of penalties.
I’m saying that the outcome to the opposing player could certainly be a big factor in the process depending on the situation and other factors. We apply this standard all the time in our legal system, I don’t see a problem applying it judiciously in the NFL as well.
I do
Take that Austin Collie concussion that started all this. How would you feel if there was no or less punishment if Austin Collie wasn’t injured? That doesn’t solve anything, it only exacerbates the problem by telling players “what you do is fine, unless someone gets hurt”. And when someone gets hurt is completely unpredictable.
You teach players to care more about the result than what they’re actually doing. Bad habit
I don't think I'm getting my point across effectively
I’m saying that when the league judges a player’s clear intent is to simply injure another player, the penalty should be one thing, and if the opposing player is seriously injured, then that should factor into the penalty. Notice that I said to use this stick judiciously and only under certain circumstances, it likely wouldn’t apply in 99% of all fines since intent is difficult to assess in normal game situations.
Punitive damages that don't benefit the one who's injured
Still pointless.
And again: it’s not a deterrent, because those injuries are random. You want to punish the process. So punish the process, no the result.
The benefit is to the league...
Punish the process and if merited, the outcome. That’s how it is handled in our legal system. I see nothing wrong with applying the same litmus test in the NFL.
If I’m driving drunk, crash my a car into yours and no one gets hurt, I’ll face one set of charges. If I crash into your car and your passenger dies, then I will face another set of charges. It is a deterrent to the offender (i.e. if I hurt someone I could really get penalized so I’d better not do that), and it is a benefit to society (not the victim). (i.e. hopefully others will learn from my mistake).
Anyhow, we’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this one. Sorry if I was a bit of a jerk at the beginning of the thread. I had just watched the Talib video a few times in a row and was pretty hot. My apologies if I offended!
I know how the legal system works
This isn’t the legal system, this is a sports league.
The deterrent shouldn’t be in “if I hurt someone then I”m really in trouble" it should be in “If I go through this action I’m going to get in trouble regardless of the outcome”. The deterrent is the severity of the punishment, and that shouldn’t depend on the result. Other than “it’s how we do it in the legal system” I can’t see an argument that works for that process.
No, that's not really what I'm saying...
What I’m saying is exactly what you’re saying with a small addition:
"If I go through this action I’m going to get in trouble regardless of the outcome". PLUS “If I really hurt someone I might get some more depending on my intent etc.”
It is an additional deterrent against the 1% of the time a player is obviously head hunting (e.g.. NHL-style enforcers).
Again: what's the benefit of that addendum?
Why not just hit obvious head-hunting harder regardless of the outcome?
Reciprocity and deterrent (i.e. making an example out of someone)
If you start fining players $10k extra for head hunting, you won’t get nearly the same attention as everyone getting the additional $10k and a couple of guys getting the $10k plus a 5 game suspension.
Hmm...
I’d hate to see the NFL become anything like the jaded bureaucracy of the American legal system. First, intent, clearly, can’t be accurately judged from an observer. It either is a legal hit or isn’t. Second, players are injured on many different types of plays every single game. It would be completely subjective and, often, superlative to decide who should get fined for what play and how much.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Just so I understand...
You don’t believe you can judge Smith’s intention when he hit Talib? Keep in mind, this judgement would be a real corner case, not an normative, every game type of thing.
By "judge"
I meant with repercussions. You, in fact, reinforce my point that opinion is subjective and what a ref THINKS a player intended should never be cause for penalty or suspension, only the legality of the act. Like, Steve Smith hitting Talib after the whistle had blown.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 17, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Has there been any work from the league
about this “hit” by Talib? I haven’t seen anything as yet. Seems more and more like a non-issue to me.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 17, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not yet
But I haven’t heard of any fines at all this week. They’re usually announced all at once, I think generally on friday.
Grimm was fined.
I think mainly because the announcer said something snarky when the hit happened because Rosario definitely didn’t look defenseless on that play. Nothing about Talib despite John Fox’s cries and pleas.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 20, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think factoring in the injury is stupid.
but then again a lot of what the nfl does is stupid IMO
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
"thuggish"
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
You're also assuming
That we would be able to see the symptoms even if they weren’t delayed which is very often not the case.
There’s a reason the league is raising awareness of concussions (i.e. most fans and players don’t realize how often it happens because the symptoms are frequently not obvious).
That's a fair point
But any concussion generally brings with it some disorientation. It doesn’t always happen and it’s certainly not impossible that that’s the play on which he got concussed, but it’s more likely that happened earlier in the game.
My understanding of the situation
Clausen did not begin to exhibit symptoms for quite some time after the game. This would indicate that the injury likely happened late in the game. Call me biased but that puts a highlighter on the Talib play in my eyes.
It might
But it’s a quick jump to conclusions.
And I keep saying this, but Talib wasn’t the one hitting him helmet to helmet. Sean Jones hit him helmet to helmet just before that. WHich, y’know, would be a much bigger problem.
Seriously. Sean Jones came in with a helmet-to-helmet hit. How does everyone keep ignoring this?
To be perfectly fair...
A part of it might be that Smitty’s reaction subconsciously colors my perspective things a bit.
A scrum like that post game draws everyone’s attention away.
Steve Smith is the real "thug"
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Link to the video
Looks like Talib was going in over the top to stop Clausen. Talib may or may not have intended to hit his helmet, but Steve Smith definitely intended to hit Talib. It’s hard to defend Carolina when they are at least as dirty if not more on this play.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/tampa-bay-buccaneers/09000d5d81c2083e/Buccaneers-defense-4th-down-failed
Sure, if we're watching through Buc-red colored glasses
Smith defended his QB, sure he did so in the wrong way.
When Talib leaves the ground he does so helmet first, elbows at his waist with his arms at a 90 degree angle. At no time did he make any attempt to deliver anything close to a legal hit. Even if his intent was to go shoulder to helmet it’s not technically illegal, but generally frowned upon.
At least the majority of sane Panthers fans were able to say Dante Wesley’s hit on Clifton Smith was dirty last year, I guess sanity only travels so far South.
It will be interesting to see what the league decides.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
He didn't just intend to go shoulder to helmet
He went shoulder to helmet. On a ballcarrier. Which is fine.
I don’t even get why all the stink is being made about Talib’s hit when Sean Jones’ hit right before that is the one that should be fined. That was launching head-first for a helmet to helmet hit.
We’ll see what the league says.
There’s a way Bucs fan see this, a way Panther fans see this and a way the rest of the league objectively see this.
General consensus among those with no vested interest tends to side with the Panthers on this one.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Your consensus is wrong.
“General consensus among those with no vested interest tends to side with the Panthers on this one.”
You are trying to make the reader assume you are from the group with no vested interest. Don’t mislead. You are a Panthers fan.
I am a Buccaneers fan.
Despite that fact, it is clear that Talib is not leading with his helmet. When you lead with your helmet to deliver the type of blow that the league is trying to eliminate, you lower your head. Talib clearly keeps his head up the whole time and is focused on the point of the play. He launches, and uses his arms with his momentum to shove.
Perfectly legal.
“At least the majority of sane Panthers fans were able to say Dante Wesley’s hit on Clifton Smith was dirty last year, I guess sanity only travels so far South.”
That hit was obviously dirty. If a Buccaneer did that I would want him off the team. That hit on Clifton was completely different in almost every aspect (same teams, same field, same sport lol) from the fourth down stop yesterday. Comparing those plays merely shows an emotional tie to the issue instead of an objective view.
It was a legal play, and a good one at that.
Like I said… we’ll see what the league has to say then they’ll be no more wondering if it was a ‘good shove’ or a helmet to helmet hit.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
"General consensus among those with no vested interest tends to side with the Panthers on this one."
Please state your source. Thanks.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The way twitter was trending today. I looked up “Aqib Talib”, “concussion” and looked up “Clausen” eliminated those from the states of NC and SC and those in FL as well as those with clear leanings on their profile one way or another.
General consensus among the remaining was that the hit was unnecessary.
It’s not a perfect system by any means, and it is just the court of public opinion but that’s all we have to go on at the moment until the omniscient league hands down their decision from the ivory tower.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 15, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
You don't think there's a clear sample size issue there?
The issue being that the only people likely to be talking about it are Panthers fans?
There is that possibility
I had also considered the natural pro/anti Clausen bias that comes with him being from Notre Dame.
Like I said, it’s not a perfect system… I just went through the effort to try and gauge what the rest of the landscape was thinking who were separated from the game.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 15, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Twitter? Seriously?
You’re getting your information from trends on Twitter? So you’re either a hip-hop star, a professional athlete or a teenage girl. Awesome researching skills, man. I sense great things in your future…
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
Yes, because those are the only people with Twitter.
Definitely not the vast majority of sportswriters, every analyst for ESPN, every analyst for CBS and Fox Sports.
I referred to it directly as ‘the court of public opinion’ and last I checked that’s exactly what I said.
I sense great things in your future too… pity comprehension of the English language was never your forte in the past.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Okay...
“I referred to it directly as ‘the court of public opinion’ and last I checked that’s exactly what I said.”
So… YOU directly call it “court of public opinion,” not indirectly, and last you checked you called it the “court of public opinion.” Thanks for the clarification. What’s the point? Another way of saying that is that YOU made an erroneous judgement in thinking that trends on Twitter constitute a court of public opinion, which would be worthless anyway as public opinion counts for absolutely nothing, and that last you checked you made an erroneous judgement in thinking that trends on Twitter constitute a court of public opinion, which would be worthless anyway as public opinion counts for absolutely nothing. Brilliant! You must be the captain of the debate team in your highschool.
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
I think you need to say "court of public opinion" about 7 more times...
Just to make sure we get it.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Steve Smith has a long history of being unable to control his anger.
Saying he was just defending his QB is probably less likely than Smith just losing his cool yet again after a frustrating day where Talib shut him down for much of the day.
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
True, unless you know Steve Smith
Smith is a lot of things: emotional to a fault at times, hot under the collar, he’ll give sound bytes that make you cringe etc. but the one thing he can never be accused of is being a liar.
There isn’t one time he’s made a bad decision (and there have been plenty of times he’s made bad decisions) that he hasn’t owned up to. Hence, as a Panther fan who knows Smith’s nature it wouldn’t be his way to try and cover up being frustrated with a facade of ‘I was protecting my teammate’. I understand Bucs fans have no onus to believe Smith, but I don’t doubt for a second that if he says he was sticking up for his QB then that’s what he truly believes.
Whether he handled it the right way is another discussion entirely.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 15, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
I have no doubt he was sticking up for his QB
And honestly I can only thank him for that play as it gave us room to kneel out the game instead of having to take an intentional safety or something.
I don’t think Steve Smith was right in what he saw, though.
Steve Smith:
Cheap shot taking thug.
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Well... he's never been arrested.
So he does have that going for him.
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by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
You're arguments would be so much more compelling if you actually had a clue as to what you were talking about.
From the great pages of wikipedia:
On November 10, 2002, Smith was involved with an altercation with his teammate Anthony Bright during a film-room meeting.3 The altercation left Bright with a broken nose and he was hospitalized for two nights. Smith was arrested and briefly jailed on charges of misdemeanor assault, and the Panthers suspended him for one game.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
You're = your
It’s been a long day.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
If you don't trust wiki
Here’s the link to USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/panthers/2002-11-22-smith_x.htm
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Touche
I’m not going to lie, I forgot about that…. maybe it was because he turned himself in rather than getting charges with resisting arrest too.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Also an altercation with a teammate isn't as bad as beating up a cab driver.
He took a cheap shot on the cabbie too. I guess that’s just his thing.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Meh... both are bad
Honestly, I spaced on the 2002 incident with Smitty (or selectively put it out of my mind)
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
"beating up"
It must be fun to make things up. The cab driver wasn’t even hurt and he assuredly wasn’t hospitalized for days. Good try though.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
“It was like someone hit me upside the head with a hammer,” said the driver, 47-year-old David Duggan of St. Petersburg, according to the St. Petersburg Times. “He hit me so hard he knocked my hat off my head.”
I don’t know if you’ve ever been hit with a hammer before, but I can assure you — the shit hurts.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I don’t know if you’ve ever worn a hat before… but they’re… well…. they’re tough to knock off!
I’ve got to admit, I like the range from the cabbie. From where I sit there’s a bit difference between being hit ‘like a hammer’ and ‘uh oh, there goes my chapeau’
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
seriously, lol
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Well, since it was a cab driver, I highly doubt it was a chapeau
I think turban would be more accurate.
(And, I’m sure you’re using the chapeau as a generic word for hat — I just wanted to make the turban joke.)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Cause turban jokes are SOOOO funny!
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i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Whatever, dude.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
It's not really racism...
More than it is fact.
Most cab drivers wear turbans. That’s not racist, just an observation.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
You're right. It's not.
And my comment wasn’t racist.
Stereotypical, perhaps. But racist — far from it.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Maybe. I have been known to do that from time to time. :-)
Seriously, I wasn’t intending to be racist with my comment.
If anything, you can certainly accuse me at making a lame joke, because in retrospect it was. But, it wasn’t meant to be racist.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
*accuse me of...
Not accuse me at. Stupid typos.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
i wasn't really accusing you of being a racist.
I don’t know you.
But to say that most cab drivers wear turbans is pretty suspect. Maybe in certain locales that is true, but not where I live and not in Tampa.
If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
It's ok
I noted down that user bwsmith25 is in fact a racist.
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Whatever. Think what you want.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Lets get back on the topic of a division rivalry, not our takes on racial matters
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
Thank you Brucie
I believe all people should be treated with respect unlike user bwsmith25
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
Apparently you think everyone but me should be treated with respect.
But whatever, I don’t really care if you like me or not.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
And, Talib likes to fight teammates as well...
From the same article linked below…
Talib has been involved in a pair of violent incidents since joining the league, according to area media reports. In a brawl during practice in May, Talib swung his helmet at a teammate and hit bystander Torrie Cox instead. And last year, during the league’s rookie symposium, he got into a fight with then-teammate Cory Boyd.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
*above, not below
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
We are all well aware of Talib's off the field issues.
This isn’t exactly news here. I was just refuting the claim that Smith had never been jailed. As far the cabby thing goes. Puhlease. Dude was just trying to get paid once hid dumb ass figured out he might have a civil lawsuit on his hands against a millionaire. Talib was suspended one game for it, but it was a bunch of malarkey in my opinion.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Fair enough.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
"Resisting Arrest without violence"
As in he didn’t get out of the cab when they asked him to the first time. Fighting and hospitalizing a teammate is much less a crime than smacking a cab driver in the back of the head though.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Just shows that Smitty packs a harder punch than Talib. :-)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I'm sure that was really Sean Jones' fault too.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Hahahahahaha… Wow. I didn’t get to see the game, and now I can’t believe anybody would think there was anything dirty about that play. His momentum was probably stopped, but he clearly was not down, and if there was any helmet-to-helmet, it was not direct and clearly unintentional. I’m glad to see Talib’s aggressiveness in that situation. Getting hit there is routine and not even borderline.
It’s pathetic how people turn into whining children when they don’t get their way, and find something to complain about, as though it would improve their lot. Yeah guys, that’s the way to progress!
"When Talib leaves the ground he does so helmet first"
lol cause everytime you jump upward your not head first?? and his shoulders are somehow physically capable of being above his head??? hahahaha get off it
/facepalm
Try emailing Roger Goodell and explaining that, then please post the response. Unless you’ve been sleeping through the 2010 season you’ll realize how ridiculous what you’re saying is.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Well to all the Panthers fans biatching
Number 1 … Go suck somewhere else.
Number2 …. Anytime the Panthers play it’s “Garbage Time” If it was Garbage time why isnt Claussen just kneeling?
Number3… If there is anything that can be classified as “Garbage Time” it is the rest of this season for John Fox.
Number4… Dauntae Wesley … Payback is a bitatch.
Quit whining and go back to your litter box to piss and moan.
"Geno Hayes sucks though
He is one notch above Sabby Piscatelli
by Sveet on Dec 1, 2009 12:34 PM EST"
We admit it when our players act like thugs...
I even remember earlier this season seeing Panthers fans apologizing to Bucs here on SBN for the Wesley hit.
They're allowed to voice their opinion.
No need to go after the poster, go after their arguments
As you can always expect come from behind victory is when you least expect it.
First off, if you are going to cuss at us, at least have the sacks to actually say the word. Otherwise I have to assume you are a 12 year old.
Secondly, while I understand the Wesley accusation and the sense of ‘payback,’ I would point out there is a difference between hitting a returner that isn’t making it obvious he’s calling a fair catch and hitting a QB head first who has been piled up upon and isn’t going anywhere, and at the end of the game at that.
3rdly, You took out our returner….so we’re going to take out your QB? What?
I would watch where you guys start up bad blood. You know what they say. An eye for an eye.
We’ll see you next year.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I would agree that the Wesley hit was different....it was much worse.
The league (probably) will agree, as I bet Wesley’s ejection and 1-game suspension without pay will turn out to be more severe than whatever penalty the league chooses to hand down to Talib. There’s absolutely no defending that play. Ever. EVER.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
What a bunch of cry babies.
I guess you would all rather harp on one questionable hit than deal with the reality of the team sucking elephant balls all year. I feel your pain. Maybe you guys will be the team that moves to London. Do they have Panthers in England? The London Hounds?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
We've discussed our team's struggles ad nauseum.
This gives us something new to talk about.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I hear ya man.
It got to the point last year where I could barely stomach watching the games.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
We would be alright if we had a coaching staff worth a crap.
But the “let’s run the ball up the middle three straight times and punt” nonsense makes me want to jump off a bridge.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I read on ESPN today that Yasinkas was trying to throw out our OC Greg Olson as a possible candidate for Fox's replacement.
You can have him.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
No offense to Greg Olson, but here’s hoping that’s not where the coaching search winds up
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
His argument was he could really help develop Clausen
but I’m not sure how much of Freeman’s development can be credited to Olson or QB coach Alex Van Pelt. If he is responsible for the advanced learning curve that Freeman has exhibited this season Yasinkas has a point, but you don’t want him calling your plays. He is better suited as a QB coach.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
If we’re looking at a OC I’d rather Schottenheimer from the Jets or Mike McCoy from the Broncos.
McCoy was out QB coach 2002-2008 and is regarded as the primary reason Jake Delhomme was able to develop. McCoy is now helping develop Kyle Orton and that’s gone pretty well.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Tell you what. We'll give you our QB coach for him.
Scherer’s claim to fame right now is being responsible for Jake’s kamikaze routine in 2009 and the poor play of Matt Moore and Clausen this year.*
*-At least that’s what I blame on him.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Oh... you guys should totally grab Olsen for your HC
… in fact, I will pay for the moving truck myself, and even drive, just to make sure he gets there safely and all.
by Cracker Ball on Nov 16, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
Olson to Carolina best thing I've heard all day!
RUN THE BALL ON FIRST DOWN!!!!!!
by bucfanlostiniowa on Nov 16, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yea but
Olson coached Drew Brees in college. How much credit goes to him there?
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
He has been playing that card to get jobs for the past ten years
Brees wasn’t near NFL ready when he came out of Purdue and sucked until they drafted Rivers in S.D.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." ~ Mark Twain
Bill Cower
just throwing it out there because the Carolina fans are semi-cool. At first i hated y’all now Im cool with it.
Leave Talib alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by LincolnHighNole on Nov 21, 2010 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
re: Will the Panthers move to London?
Judging by attendance we’re doing a-okay.
You guys… not so much…
Seriously though, the Bucs are having a great season and Raymond-James holds 65,000. Why is home attendance so low?
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
The economy is terrible
Last year killed a lot of buzz for the team, and a lot of people think the Glazers are cheap bastards.
It sucks. Hopefully it’ll turn around soon.
It's something around 13-15% of the area is unemployed.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
Yeeesh... that's terrible
What caused the downturn in Tampa? Is the area’s economy that linked to tourism?
I was always under the impression the area was a port town, and they rarely get hit because people always need to ship things.
Charlotte’s not in the best state of affairs either, but given it’s basis is banking and manufacturing one would think we’d be hit harder.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
We have a port, but it's not major or anything. But FL depends on tourism, and with people scared to spend and oil in the gulf, it hits us pretty hard.
Also, the Bucs are one of the most expensive teams to go see and many have lost faith in the owners who aren’t spending on anything (which I believe is CBA related and not being completely cheap).
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
Disney's has been laying off people, so I take it as yes.
Disney doesn’t ever lay people off. It does cost more to go to Disney than a Bucs game.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
I see and handle foreclosures on a daily basis.
You wouldn’t believe the magnitude of them in this state. We are talking the worst economic conditions here since the great depression.
Cannons... fire them.
Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
We going to da ship?
love it love it love it
i hate one person more than Pap smear—his name is bin laden
by sternfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
fish fish fish lol
It’s clear that Talib didn’t intentionally “lead with his head.”
I’m telling u that in all reality with Talib jumping UP to stop Clausen that the probability of his head making contact first goes up significantly. That’s just the “reality” lol. He was not head hunting, watch the video.
Maybe if Fox wasnt sneaking his QB with 5 seconds left in an already decided game
this wouldnt happen. The play was still going on and Clausen was still stretching out. If Aqib lead with his helmet, so be it. Fine him. But dont complain as a Panther fan because your coach was dumb enough to call that play.
+1
5 picks out of the first 100 in a draft saturated with talent. Yes, I'm optimistic.
by chuckyforpres on Nov 15, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
I just looked at the play.. Are you guys just picking on talib cuz he shut down your best player? Sean jones is a better arguement for a dirty hit
on the brightside, you guys get the number one pick in next years draft, arent panther fans happy? :)
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 15, 2010 10:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The only cheap shot I saw and I just watched it a few times was Steve Smith at the end of the play.
The angle makes it look worse than it was.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
I'm watching fox news and they seem to think aqib didn't do anything wrong...but hey they are probly buc fans right
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 16, 2010 2:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It happened right in front of me, I make my way down to the standing room only at the 2 min warning every game
and from my point of view both guys hit him in the shoulders with no head contact. The refs were standing right there too, they would have called it.
These guys from the other site are just trying to stir the turds, best bet is to just ignore them.
I'm not negative, I'm just telling you how it is.
It didn't really seem like THAT big of a deal...
when I saw the play. Not speaking as a Buc fan – just as a fan in general. Seemed like a glancing blow at best, and people do that king of thing at the end of every play. Certainly not enough evidence to justify all of this hooplah…
by Cracker Ball on Nov 16, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
While I’ve never been crazy about the organization (and yes, that does have a lot to do with the ass-kickings past Bucs teams have endured),I actually thought the Panthers had a pretty classy and mature fanbase prior to this thread, without even bringing up Fox’s role in kicking up mud. It’s like he thought losing the game wasn’t enough, and decided that nobody should respect him, either.
I actually thought the Panthers had a pretty classy and mature fanbase prior to this thread…
If this thread caused you to lose respect for our fanbase, then you really didn’t have that much of it to begin with. If the tables were reversed, and Charles Godfrey puts the exact same hit on Freeman that Talib put on Clausen, you guys would be just as upset as we are.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Freeman gets in the endzone unconcussed
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 16, 2010 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because our guys don't take cheap helmet to helmet shots at him.
Unlike your thug secondary.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Our thug secondary shut down your thug receiver!
Obviously all of you that are bitching about “nothing” have never played football, he had a split second to choose to make a play or not and im not just excusing talib but most of the hits that have been fined lately are split second decisions and are not purposely taking shots
by Carlitin1988 on Nov 16, 2010 2:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Talib
Talibs a thug we all know it, a damn good corner but a thug. Hopefully he will mature a bit cause that hit was pretty shady. I have to say though its almost karma from last season with Clifton Smith. hopefully clausen has a speedy recovery
That hit was shady?
I don’t see that. The play wasn’t over, if it even was a helmet-to-helmet hit it was a glancing blow and he kept his facemask up throughout the play.
Talib was definitely a thug before (though supposedly he’s matured this offseason), but he’s never been a dirty player.
Good luck to you guys this season
At this point the dead horse has been beaten beyond recognition by both sides.
You wont convince us, we wont convince you and whether the league rules for, or against the Panthers neither side is going to change their mind.
I’ll leave with my football thought on your team that transcends one play or one player because we probably wont talk until Tampa and Carolina face each other next year: You guys are going to be good, really good, for a long time.
Honestly, I laughed when it was announced Raheem Morris was taking over, I thought it was a terrible hire. I mocked the Josh Freeman draft pick as a homer pick by a guy who previously coached the same team, again… I was wrong.
If LeGarrette Blount continues to keep himself in check and concentrates on playing football then he’ll continue to prove why he was a 1st or 2nd round talent destroyed by some bad decisions. Couple that with Freeman who honestly at this point scares me more than any other QB in the NFC South (Brees included) because he can extend the play better and finish with Mike Williams and Arrelious Benn, who I believed to be the best receiver in the 2010 draft and the Tampa Bay Bucs are going to be scary.
Have Carolina had more recent success? Sure… but at the same time we’re completely in flux and rebuilding, something you guys know plenty about. I can’t tell you when we’ll be back, but we will be back- rest assured. Without John Fox and with $70 million in cap space I have no clue what the Carolina Panthers will look like in 2011 or beyond, but I can promise you it will be a fun ride in the NFC South for a while to come; the best division in football nobody ever gives credit.
Please continue the ‘worst to first’ trend, because that’ll send us some good mojo heading into 2011.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Nov 16, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You guys are going to be good, really good, for a long time.
I agree with James here. You guys are set up for long term success.
As much smack that has been talked by both sides over one play in garbage time, imagine how much fun we’re going to have with each other when both of us are good again. I honestly cannot wait for that, because like I’m sure most of you do, I love a good old fashioned division rivalry.
All I ask of you guys is to keep playing well and keep the Saints out of the playoffs.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
One draft can greatly impact a season.
Our team is living proof of that. I hope you guys have a good draft this offseason, cause you guys need it. Actually, I hope you don’t…..but…. you know….pleasantries and all that jazz.
Cannons... fire them.
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