Why Jon Gruden Didn't Work Out in Tampa Bay
I've Been around for all the "Dump McKay in the Bay" Signs.
I listened to the "Give Leeman Bennett One more year" talk.
"Ray Perkins Must go, he is killing our boys".
Been There, Done that.
In each case, a coach with some measure of success has come through our doors at One Buccaneer Place, coming in with credentials, leaving with scribble marks on their resumes, usually never to be heard from again.
Each time, we were able to take a look back after a cool down period and see things for what they were;
- Leeman Bennett never had a chance, the Bucs were devoid of talent after spending so many #1''s trying to replace Doug Williams, they never replaced aging defensive players.
- Ray Perkins had success in New York with his defensive coordinator Bill Parcells, and excellent drafting by now legendary GM George Young.
- Sam Wyche had excellent talent around him in Cincinnati and just the right system for the right players he had. When that talent dropped off, 1991 happened in Ohio. 3-13. When he got here, he found a team without talent, and an owner who cryed poor while stuffing his coffers full of team money, trading or cutting talented players before their second lucrative contracts could take place, always posting a young team on the field. Young, Inexperience, and with limited talent.
Free Agency changed that. The salary cap not only stopped you from speding too much, it forced Hugh Culverhouse to spend at LEAST the minimum. Suddenly talent ensued. Hardy Nickerson. Jackie Harris. Alvin Harper (Ok, they tried).
Enough time has passed so we can now take a look at what happened with Jon Gruden. WonderBoy. Boy Genius. Genius. All names he did not create for himself. He was called these because thats what he was. He was a study of the game, of the offenses of Bill Walsh. He learned from the creator of the West Coast Offense, and he kept it in its purest form longer than any other disciples (Thus why no shotgun for so long. Bill Walsh did not use such a thing).
Holmgren Identified this brilliant student, and took him to Green Bay to be a quality control assistant, which turned into Wide Receivers coach. This caught the eye of Ray Rhodes, new head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, who made Jon Gruden the Offensive Coordinator. Wasn't long before Gruden's offense ranked 4th and 6th, and was eyed as a head coach.
The Raidahs.
Al Davis.
..and now super young offensive genius Jon Gruden, took over a team that went 4-12, and instantly turned them into a .500 team. He didnt have the QB to work with there, getting Jeff George and Wade Wilson. So the next year, in 1999, he signed Rich Gannon, who worked out perfectly in his system.
In only his second year, he found his QB, in a QB driven system. It was the key to his success there. Oakland had a powerful offense, with numerous weapons. The Team Ran as well as it passed. In fact, better; The 2000 Raiders had the No.1 Rushing team, with the 15th passing attack! In 3 years Gruden took a 4-12 team to 12-4 and the AFC Championship game where he lost to the Superbowl champions, and probably one of the best defenses in history, the Baltimore Ravens. In 2001, there is no telling how far Gruden and his team would have gone if not for the tuck rule game, which eliminated them.
Then came the trade. A kings ransom, and reason number..
- Why Jon Gruden did not work out? It was a deal MADE to work NOW, at the cost of later. 4 highly skilled players were missing from Jon Grudens Buccaneers from around 2004 to 2008, players that could have helped if not for anything but letting free agency money that was badly needed be used for better purposes.
- Rich McKay resigned Martin Gramatica, Simeon Rice, Keshawn Johnson, Brad Johnson, and Booger McFarlane to lucrative long term contracts. No, he didnt do it to sabatoge the team! It was the way McKay had worked for years. Lock in your core group of players, and it was a succesful system: Prior to free agency. But as life would spin, these players were NOT part of the core. Gramatica fizzled in 04, as did Brad Johnsons usefulness. Why McKay would extend Keyshawn knowning full well he clashed with Gruden so much is beyond reasoning. Only Rice would be around till '06.
- Talent. McKay could spot the talent, but was not a good Free Agency GM. Allen was a wizz at Free Agency, but it would appear not as good at spotting the talent. The Bucs did not hit home on lower round draft picks, and in a lot of occasions did not do well in higher ones either. Taking a bigger chunk from much needed and scarce free agency money.
- QB failure- One of the biggest myths (probably no. 2) is that Jon Gruden couldnt make up his mind with QBs. Gruden tried in vain to find his Rich Gannon, and probably did with Jeff Garcia, but a few years too late, both in Bucs timeframe, and Garcia's body's. But Gruden only benched a QB 3 times in 7 years at the helm. Brad Johnson was the man, and won the Superbowl with him. Brad Johnson in 7 years was the only QB to play all 16 games in one year, that was 2003, which by no coincidence was the best ranked offense for the Bucs; #10. Brad was benched first in 2004. Chris Simms was given the job, but lost it to injury. Griese took over, and started in 05. Griese went down to Knee Injury and Simms became QB again. The Bucs started the 2006 season with Simms, but due to his spleen ruptured, had to go with a backup, and chose Gradkowski who was benched for Rattay. To start the 07 Season, Jeff Garcia played until injury. Garcia was benched after game one of 2008, the 3rd benching done by Gruden. That is it. Gruden's system is Quarterback driven, and yet was never able to develop, or settle with, one QB for reasons his fault and some not of his doing.
- The Message got old. He wasnt around in Oakland that long, and there was a system of continued success there. Here, there was instant success, with mostly (key word, MOSTLY) players that were not his own. Then there were declining seasons which took their toll on his message, and his word. Players were told one thing, but when there are losses, things don't always go as planned. "Love Ya Bro" as he was fond of saying, works great when you go 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 10-6 like he did in Oakland. But when you go to the Superbowl, then do a 7-9, 5-11, it just doesnt go over as well.
I think Jon Gruden's tenure here can be summed up simply; He took over a team of underachieving pro bowl calibur players, who after going to the NFC Championship game in 1999, never were able to recapture that fire in the two seasons afterwards. He provided the defense of that team with the fire to get back to 1999 form, and then some, and with the help of about 7 well placed free agents on offense, was able to get that side of the ball to play with the same level of intensity that was expected of the defense. The offense did not respond overnight, but they improved every week, culminating in a unit that played its best when it needed to, the playoff stretch, and in the playoffs themselves.
The improvements on offense are undeniable. Looking at the 2001 players and then the 2002, you can see "Gruden won with Tony's Team" is utter nonsense.
From Keshawn, Jacquez Green and Karl Williams, To Keyshawn, Keenan McCardell, and Joe Jurevicius.
From Dave Moore and Todd Yoder, to Ken Dilger and Ricky Dudley.
Not to mention the additions of Romen Oben, Kerry Jenkins on the left side of the line, who really took over towards the end of the year and provided excellent protection.
The Myth that Gruden won the SuperBowl with Dungy's players is indeed the biggest myth of all.
If he did, then he beat HIS superbowl team in black, the Raiders. Anyway you look at it, Gruden took a team to the Superbowl in 2002, no matter how your point of view goes!
People tend to forget the defense in 2000 and 2001 was starting to crumble. They were having problems getting off the field on 3rd downs. They were allowing large point totals. They were NOT the units of 1999 anymore. The Fire that Jon Gruden brought helped rekindle Tony's defense, so credit needs to be given there too.
In the end though..too many factors just added up to spell doom for Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen.
The constant injuries, the handling of players, were a sore eye for Gruden whenever talked about by local Radio programs and newspapers. After all was said and done, the Glazers were ready for the same new blood Gruden provided 7 years earlier, and it was the right decision. To say Jon Gruden is not a good coach, or doesn't know offenses, is just selling the man short completely. You don't forget how to do your job, and we will see that in a few years when he is back on his feet again. I for one hope he stays out of the NFC South.
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Gruden is a good coach.....BUT
If Tony was here we may have won the Superbowl….or not. My opinion is that we would have been a consistent top contender for many years under Dungy and McKay. We would have kept the 1st round picks and reloaded and right now we wouldn’t be rebuilding.
I give credit where credit is due…..Gruden brought us the Superbowl and then rollercoaster seasons from then on. The elimination of Rich McKay was the downfall of the success of the organization.
We should have been filling gaps in the team. Resigning players that were valuable. Continue re-tooling the team through the draft and spots from Free Agency.
Bruce Allen when he came to town…..made major budget cuts….saving the Glazners millions of dollars and it cost the Buccaneers…..making them non competitive year after year.
John Lynch…….Warren Sapp…….Derrick Brooks…..Simeon Rice…..all should have retired here.
Now here we are…….Rebuilding an enitre franchise who should have been re-tooling….Go to New England Patriots…….for an example
I totally agree with your point about the four players who should have retired here.
Losing those players was more than just losing their skills. It was a loss of leadership as well.
I don't
They were all on a downslide, past their prime, and costly. It would have been a nice day at RayJay for the fans to see them retire, but not at the expense of the future. Unfortunately, the future was squandered on other bad decisions.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
So, you believe their replacements out performed them?
And you believe that Brooks would not improve the team today?
I don't understand where you are coming from:
You say that they were on a downward slide, sure, but do you think they were let go too early?
Also, you say that their replacements, or replacement by resources—dollars—were wasted.
It all leads back to the idea that they should have been retained. I’ll agree, maybe not all of them should retired here, but the certainly were let go too early.
Lets look at some of the releases...
Most popular was John Lynch. Yes, he went on to play well, and go to probowls. Probowls are popularity contests. They say you miss out a few early in your career, then go to a few too many at the end.
John Lynch was here for 10 seasons. Thats a long career for a safety. His replacement was ready. He was also injured.
Lets keep in mind that Lovie Smith was D Coordinator with St. Louis, who could have picked up Lynch. Herman Edwards, Lynchs’ childrens’ Godfather, was head coach with the Jets. Did not pick up Lynch. Tony Dungy at Indi, did not pick up John Lynch. The Denver Broncos took a chance, and it paid off for them.
Warren Sapp had two terrible years after he left here, then had a good one, basically had one good year out of 4.
His sack totals were not the same in his last year. He had more illegitimate children than sacks in 2003. No one knew Booger had a motor that was so inconsistant. Even Warren Sapp has explained he understands this.
The problem is, as only a 30 something old franchise, who has only now had an actual period of winning like we have had in the last decade, has never had to deal with the situation of losing ones local sports heroes. We have never had to deal with watching a team like the 70s Steelers fall apart player by player. Watching a Joe Namath in a Rams uniform. Imagine how Buffalo Bills fans felt, they went to four straight Super Bowls, and then their hero Thurman Thomas is wearing a Miami Dolphin uniform! A DOLPHIN!
Its not something weve had to deal with here before. It was not easy to watch Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, ect leave. in hindsight, only Alstott was able to leave a Buc….and perhaps Barber could be the only one to leave on his own if he retires at the end of the year.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
Sure, I agree with you: we're basically talking about gambling. And hindsight.
But, I feel keeping Lynch, Rice, and Brooks would have been smarter moves.
You make a good argument about Sapp.
To me, keeping players in the same uniform: that’s nice but not essential. I’m more worried about team dynamics. Certainly the team was changing in 2002-3, but it is the direction in which it changed that I feel was harmful.
So you're saying keep players for fan morale, and team continuity?
You seem to agree that their talent was declining, some more than others. I remember watching games in Lynch’s last season as a Buc. He was not a Pro Bowler. As you stated, the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. I am saying that dumping Lynch, and Rice were smart moves that were executed poorly because some of their replacements were either not up to it, or poorly coached. As for Brooks, he should have retired at the end of last season as a Buc. I think everyone appreciates him, but sometimes it is hard for them to let go. It must hurt him that nobody has picked him up, but that shows it was a move that was good for the success of the team. If his replacement sucks, it doesn’t mean it was bad to let him go. Barber should retire at the end of the season, because he is next to go. He was terrible last year.
I understand fan and team morale, but if Lynch and Rice and now Brooks were gone and we won because their replacements were ready, most fans wouldn’t care. And if they stayed and lost, fans and the media would complain how old they are, and the coach would get the blame.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
NFL Is most unloyal sport to its players
Yesterdays heros are always todays journymen. Once a player starts declining, Teams cut all loyalty to them. It is always a sad day in team history when one of the stars gets older in age and performance declines but that is just the game. It it not just the bucs. Everyone could see the decline in Brooks performance, he just lost a step and late in the season it was painful to watch him run. He was a steady force in this org and I would like to see him get resigned just so that he can retire the same day. I think that his career is done as a elite LB in the NFL. Lynch has found his way back to bucs territory and it would be nice to see Brooks do the same. He may get picked up by a team but I think he only has 1 year left in him (probably has 0 years left but i will give him the benefit of the doubt).
Yup
Once again, you said it well. Although, I won’t shed any tears for multi-millionaires playing a game, and retiring at 36 years old. Especially not in this economy.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
You're conflating declining with useless.
A declining player—and not all of them were—may be a better option if they have the leadership and intelligence to work within a given offense or defense.
You admit the replacements were poor (I don’t care if it was ability or coaching, they didn’t perform). Therefore, I don’t understand why you defend the replacements—even if you don’t look at extra positives of leadership and continuity.
I agree on Barber, but I would much rather keep Brooks now, and dump Barber. We have the money and the need for Brooks.
We totally disagree on one thing: if a replacement sucks, it does mean it was wrong to dump a player. This seems obvious to me.*
*Unless there is some money moving as well that pays dividends elsewhere or later.
What I mean is
Right idea, poor execution. BTW, which one was not in decline?
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
Rice and Lynch are debatable.
We’ll never know with Rice, given his stats the next year are limited.
I would have kept rice
He was our best End we have had in a while. I would like to see Adams turn into the beast Rice was. The money is the main reason why older players don’t sign. Why pay a guy a big salary for 1 or 2 year when you can sign or promote a player who makes about a quarter of what you are going to sign that big name player. How much do you think that Geno Hayes makes? he probably doesn’t even make a million a year. If Geno can do half of what brooks did for the bucs, he will be successful. I am not sure that brooks has anything left in the tank.
Correction: Alvin Harper
Wasn’t he a Glazer signing after Culverhouse’s death? He was a ballyhooed addition that showed the new owners would spend…
To strive, to seek, to find, and to forever keep it Raw. Raw Charge.
The Glazers have never picked up one person on this team
They are the type of ownership group that lets football people make football decisions. And if the result is not to their liking, they will change the football people. Any suggestions otherwise are simply the opinions of radio personalities.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
Lemme rephrase
Wasn’t the Harper signing under the Glazers ownership tenure? Cuz it sure wasn’t under Hugh Culverhouses watch…
I never insinuated that the Glazer family themselves did the deed, but the signing and the money spent were not done while Hugh Culverhouse was alive.
To strive, to seek, to find, and to forever keep it Raw. Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Sep 6, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand corrected then on your intent.
You are correct. 1995 was the year the Glazers bought the team from the Culverhouse trust.
Not sure what the timing of it was, but I seem to remember the Harper signing being under the old house. Anyways, its clear Hugh was gone by that point. So I stand corrected.
None the less, the franchise started to spend money on free agents when free agency came into the league.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
good post
Gruden/Allen era lived off the defense and free agency for sure. Rich McKay certainly had success with the draft and got tired of telling Gruden NO on short term moves. I think the defensive coordinator Kiffin who is now in Tennessee is what kept Gruden’s team competitive. Overall, Gruden never developed a QB for future and some players doubted his leadership. Its becoming clear that the new head coach is not the next Timlin like they hoped he would be.
by David Bloom on Sep 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Morris
Is it clear? I really don’t know how anyone can say anything about how Morris’ future success will be. People have been proven wrong time after time when they have called a player or coach a bust after only one season. To be able to review him, or anyone, before any actual games are played is mind-boggling. They could lose most of their games this year, as many predict, and he could still emerge to be the best coach in the history of the league, ……..or the worst. A reasonable chance would be to see if he is successful or sucks after he has a chance, over a few years, to build a team around his scheme.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
Morris has not coached one game yet. How is it clear?
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
Wait a second...
Dungy built the Bucs up, and had excellent success with the team he built.
Then after being fired, he did the same for the Colts.
Gruden came in, won a Superbowl, and then presided over the decline of the Bucs.
Dungy clearly has more success with building teams—did Gruden win with Dungy’s EXACT team? No. But he won with MOST of it. That’s because the defense won those games. How many touchdowns did the defense score in the Superbowl?
Gruden was able to win a Superbowl because of the defensive work that Dungy and Kiffen put together. If you honestly believe that Gruden did not win with what we should call Dungy and Kiffen’s team, I’m not sure what I can say—other than watch the 2002 postseason games again, and see where the plays are… hint: defense!
And Yes, McKay was a big part of it too...
But also, keep in mind how Dungy handled his players. He built up some guys for whom the community could be proud, on and off the field.
Gruden didn’t do as well. He wasn’t terrible, but he certainly didn’t win the kind of respect from his players that Dungy was able to build.
My post above yours
My post is also a reason that it was a bit of a combination of coaching efforts, but Gruden didn’t build that team. He didn’t have a chance to put his scheme into place. A bit of it, yes, but once he and Allen had a chance to put their personality on the team, it wasn’t good on or off the field.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
I would go farther, I feel he alienated players and contributed to the decline.
And this is in addition to some of the moves by the GM.
Do you feel that players would have been as willing to jet off somewhere else if Dungy were still in town? I doubt it.
After reading your post again, maybe we're saying pretty much the same thing.
The lone difference might be that I feel what we got while Gruden was good enough for me to judge his building abilities. I wasn’t impressed.
I am in agreement with you
He was bad for the team in the long run. He may have had a one year dynamic that made a difference, maybe not, but eventually he was IMO a cancer to the organization.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
go back and look at what the defense was doing in 2000, and 2001.
They were NOT the same defense that we saw in 99, or superbowl year. They were letting teams stay on the field on 3rd downs, they were giving up big plays. In 2000 the D was ranked 9th. 2001 it was worse.
This team was on a decline after 1999, literally winning less games each year.
Its easy to look back and say Dungy had great teams here. Lets not forget, his teams could not score one touchdown in three years straight worth of playoff games.
Under Jon Grunden, in 2002, the Bucs scored more points in the playoffs that year (3 games) than every Bucs playoff team in history, Orange included.
Gruden provided the fire for the defense as well as the offense.
There is nothing to support that we would have had any better than a .500 or worse year in 2002 if Dungy was retained.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
I think you discount the defensive framework left in place by Dungy.
I also think you misremember the performance of the defense during 2002.
I make no predictions regarding how the team may have fared if Dungy were retained, but I do think there is a difference between building a team, and taking an already built team to the Superbowl.
That doesn’t mean I regret getting Gruden.
again, the already built team you refer to..
1) was not preforming very well and was no where near up to 2002 standards at the end of 2001
2)Missing over 50% of new offensive players.
Kerry Jenkins, Romen Oben, Ken Dilger, Keenan McCardell, Joe Jurivicius, Michael Pittman, Keith Dudly. Thats 7 offensive players of 11 on the field at any one time, that were new.
Not an already built team on that side of the ball.
Also, Gruden was instrumental in moving Shelton Quarles over to Mike LB, and The Crane (I cannot remember his name for the life of me, left defensive end…94, brain fart…) were two new changes to the D.
Its nice to see someone can debate football without resorting to name calling and other 12 year old isms.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
I agree! Immaturity gets old, and fast. And it's not very fun.
I recently watched the postseason 2002 games again, and I was taken aback at how much the defense did. That’s where I see the Dungy, Kiffen legacy.
Again, I don’t think that getting Gruden was a mistake, I just feel that Dungy was a more successful team builder, and that Gruden lacks that ability—from what I saw.
Maybe he will get another chance to prove me wrong.
GRUDEN BUILDS THROUGH FREE AGENCY
Worked well in Oakland because that’s Davis’ game too. He should have payed Gruden and kept him there. Dope lost a perfect couch for his way of doing things, and a Super Bowl.
I have a question:
Can this be the last anti-gruden/for gruden post? I believe if we have to bring it up every now and then, it keeps getting old.
WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
ALSO! NOW THE HEAD OF THE PUFFY-ROD BANDWAGON.
no, it certainly will not be the last time anyone has a pro/con gruden post.
The man won us our first Superbowl, and then was fired 6 years later.
There is no way that is going to die down for another ten years.
Heck, People still talk about DUNGY….
ALso, the post was not a Pro or Con, it was my opinion, after several months of being removed from the Gruden regime, on what happened overall.
More info may come out in the future, in which case we will be talking about it even more.
Trust me, there are plenty of topics I HATE to see/hear. I usually click off of them.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
DUNGY'S D, BUT NO OFFENSE WITHOUT GRUDEN!!!
Sub par drafting? Sure. Bad free agency moves. Maybe. But the Bucs sucked on offense the WHOLE TIME DUNGY WAS THERE! THE WHOLE TIME!!!! Dungy was handed Payton Manning and Co in Indy. Gave them stability and just enough defense. Thats why they were so solid in his tenure. I loved Dungy in Tampa, but he is a good coach, not a great coach. Calm, solid, but lackluster in his approach to offense. I would call Gruden a good coach as well. Fired up, but too much ego. Gruden had a good QB in Oakland who could run his offense and Al Davis behind him to spend money. Gruden would have won a Superbowl or 2 in Oakland if Davis wasn’t so crazy. Didn’t work out that way. Tampa is a whole different story. Defense was on its way out and his QB Johnson was smart, but couldn’t get out of his own way. His O line was on its way out too. And the Glazers spent a Kings Ransom to bring Gruden in, which pretty much destroyed the next couple of years in free agency money. People say he never did anything on Offense after the Superbowl. Greise looked great until he got hurt. Would have been nice for him to have had another quality receiver besides brittle Galloway. Even Simms looked solid until he got hurt. He did a lot with Garcia and a bunch of back ups on offense last year. Gruden will do well again somewhere with a solid veteran QB who can run his offense and owners who spend their $$$.
Take a look at the Bucs numbers on offense
during Dungy’s tenure and Gruden’s tenure. Last I looked (halfway through last year) Gruden average less points per game on offense than Dungy, but also gave up less points per game than Dungy.
Gruden’s offense was in no way superior to Dungy’s offense. Run the offensive numbers, points per game, yards per game etc and you’ll see that Dungy and Gruden had a fairly similar set of numbers.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
I was pointing out to anyone who thinks Gruden's offense was superior to Dungy's
the fact that the numbers didnt back it up. A pre-emptive argument if you will.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
Buc Wild is correct, over all he was not more successful here, although 2007 and 2003 were statistically better seasons.
Actually 2003 was tied for the highest offensive ranking ever in our history, 10th.
My point was, DURING THE SUPERBOWL RUN, Gruden’s offense kicked into high gear.
Our defense got us to 12-4, but our Offense won playoff games. Defense wasnt enough in 00, 01, the offense hammered the 49ers, and put two long touchdown drives together at Phily.
Other than that, no, gruden was no more offensive than Dungy for the most part. not enough to really brag about thats for sure.
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
NUMBERS ARE GREAT BOYS...
…but they are not the be all end all. It was injuries that hurt our offense, which was the point I was trying to make. We had little to no depth under Gruden. We had a #2 QB Simms for most of a season. Then we had Gradkowski and Rattay for a season (3 and 4?). Dungy had his #1 Difler almost the whole time. Then he had his #2 in King. Galloway was always hurt. The Caddie was constantly parked. Garcia was old. In 2003 we had a number of guys back from the 2002 offense, if I remember correctly. Yes, Gruden loves old guys and he certainly had something to do with the depth of the team, but I think $$$ played the bigger role. He was able to do a lot offensively in Oakland with a bunch of old dudes. That’s all I’m saying.
Compelling argument
I felt Dungy was overrated because he is such a likable guy. He should get credit creating very good teams, but I don’t think he would have won a SB without Super Man-ning. He should also get credit for having players that were good for the community.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
AMEN brother..
Tony Dungy is a B Coach, and a A+ Man
My Buddy went somewhere to get high and watch some good fights, and after a few minutes a Bucs Practice broke out.
Finally, no Jon Gruden
In my opinion, Gruden knew his football, but lacked real leadership (he wasn’t ridiculed as “Chucky” at Oakland for nothing!). Gruden won the Super Bowl because he had coached the raiders and knew their playbook and the players, especially the quarterback. He easily anticipated 90% of the Raider’s plays and the particular defense, and was thus able to thwart a great Raider team. He might as well have had a radio receiver picking up each play and defense! He also taught his defensive backs the “tells” of the quarterback so that they knew every passing play resulting in five interceptions from a quarterback who was one of the least intercepted QB’s that year. Whether Gruden carried his “inside information,” or special knowledge of the players he had coached the year before, especially the QB, to unsportsmanlike lengths may be moot—after all it is PRO football, no quarter given!—winning is everything! I certainly enjoyed winning the Super Bowl and no one likes the Raiders outside of Oakland—or whether the Raider coaches and good ole Al Davis were just too d—- dumb not to anticipate that unless they changed their playbook drastically and took the necessary steps to change all the small things that giveaway a player’s anticipated actions is for the fans to decide. Point is, without his special insider knowledge,Gruden might not have beat any other opponent in the Super Bowl and was given undue credit for a genius he didn’t posses in winning the Super Bowl, the lack of which ability should have been evident in the immediate years that followed. It has taken too long to get rid of him. Don’t feel sorry for Jon—he took away quite a few millions (in my opinion unearned) from TB. At last, having chucked “Chucky,” we can look forward to a good season—TB will make the playoffs this year for sure! Check the odds—they’re sure to go up.

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