The more things change (Offense), the more they stay the same (Defense)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 4:55 PM EST

Two weeks in a row now, Josh Freeman has led the Bucs from behind in the 4th quarter; this time down 22-13 in the 4th qtr behind the excellent kicking of Conor Barth, and timely interception of Quincy Black. If anything, the Bucs may have scored too early after Blacks interception when Cadillac Williams stretches into the endzone for the go-ahead touchdown.

The first sign of a problem was a 15 yard, enforced on the kickoff penalty on Kellen Winslow, but the Bucs covered the return team and kept Miami pinned deep in their end of the field. The defense once again has failed this team as they allowed the Dolphins to drive down the field in under two minutes.

While there may be no pressure to win right now, the Bucs still fought for 60 minutes and showed us some signs to be optimistic about this team's future.

If anything, the play of the game may have been the end of the 1st half atrocity perpetrated by the officials when they ruled Michael Clayton had fumbled a caught ball when replays clearly showed the ball was caught and the play was dead. This resulted in 10 Miami point the Bucs had to fight back from.

Yet the defense did show some fight, but holding MIami to 5 of 14 third down conversions was little consolation to giving up 199 yards on the ground, something the Dolphins clearly went to on the final drive.

And so the season goes on, Tampa Bay is developing an offense which just needs to show up a little earlier, and a kicker which is a position that has sorely been missed in 2009 until today. The defense however is still simply undermanned. Defensive Tackles, Ends and a few guys in the secondary are going to be needed if this thing will be turned around next season. Today, we saw a little bit of the foundation the future will be built on.

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The brings up the question.

With the way the team has played the last two weeks, even though you keep the axe over Bates head, do you still hold the axe over Olsen’s?

by NewLogic on Nov 15, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions

I think the offense is responding, and we really dont know what if any, handicap Olsen has with the situation of coming in and taking over Jags playbooks.

As for Bates, I think people dont forget how to do their job. Coaching is so over rated. Its important, very important, but you cannot coach a college team to beat a pro team. so thus, you cannot overcome poor talent with coaching. Remember, Monte Kiffin was the D coordinator last year, and this team gave up how many yards in the last 4 games? Lets get some players for Jimmy.

Viva la Bucco Bruce 1976-1996 (reincarnated 2009)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

The problem with that logic is:

Again you’re assuming the team didn’t mail it in after Monte’s announcement…

I think they did-

"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)

by chiefs_55 on Nov 16, 2009 1:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I think it had a mild effect

but the way the middle of our defense got gashed showed a clear problem in size, strength and talent.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Nov 16, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions

Plus if you are going by talent level:

Bates had Denver’s D last year, and look how much better they are? This year ours looks as bad as Denver’s D last year… And they had a hell of a secondary!

"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)

by chiefs_55 on Nov 16, 2009 1:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Tell the truth

I would say the axe should be over Olsen’s head and not Bates. The defense is slowly but surely coming together. Add a huge DT and a smart & fast DE, we would be monsters in this system. And guess what, we probably will add at least one of these this offseason.

Now the playcalling is just odd at best. I give Olsen props for taking over in a bad situation, but he is just poor at calling the right plays. He is a great QB coach tho

by miracles83 on Nov 15, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

Im sorry I think you have that backwards in my opinion.

But I do see SOME defensive improvement,

Viva la Bucco Bruce 1976-1996 (reincarnated 2009)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions

Yeh, its just a matter of opinion.

I would like to see Bates get another year, but I also defended G. Adams and Gruden. Guess I’m just an eternal optimist..

But there is no doubt that the play calling is just strange. We should be calling running plays on 1st down a large majority of the time, and then if it gets stuffed mix it up between run and pass on 2nd down. This way, you have manageable 3rd downs nearly every time.

You know what I saw? Too many throws on 1st down which went incomplete which led to a throw on 2nd down which forces an obvious long passing down on 3rd. I realize that it is predictable to do it this way, but you just have to trust your players to use their creative ability.

by miracles83 on Nov 15, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

I think

it falls on alittle of both honestly. The only thing is that it’s kinda hard to pin it on the D-Cord when your defense is just plain man-handled up front. It makes it hard to call Defensive plays. I wouldn’t completely put it on Bates unless we saw the same thing NEXT year [considering the D is very young this year] So as far as the D goes, I think it splits between the D and Bates. The other thing is that White was inactive and Crowder was starting, which moved Bennett [a rookie] to DT instead of DE. In a game like this I think thats an overlooked factor since the D line was mauled on the run and had didn’t produce ONE sack against the pass. I did like BLACKS improvement. I’ve been waiting for that ALL year and maybe we will start to see more of that. [led the team with 9 tkls, 1 int] He should be a bigger impact by now in my opinion.

When it comes to Olson- I don’t really understand his philosophy…I guess you could say. In his opinion he thinks you should PASS to set up the RUN? If that was true wouldn’t the Cardinals run offense have been better than DEAD last every year?? [not considering this year] As a defensive player myself, I loved it when the other team passed because it gave you more opportunity to make plays and when a team would constantly run it was irritating and energy draining. So I’m alittle lost on that. Also, I HATE, absolutely HATE when he calls those draws on 2nd downs, especially when they have succes just pounding it away with Caddy. Those draws on 2nd kill Caddys Avg. When he calls them on 3rd they work. Stick to 3rd.

by Luckydabney7 on Nov 16, 2009 5:14 AM EST up reply actions

as for my opinion on Freeman....

you guys ready for this? I’ve officially, after 2 games, changed my opinion. He’s better than I gave him credit for…I don’t know what he fixed since College but he looks a THOUSAND times better in the NFL. I like his poise and he handles critical moments in the game very well. Don’t think I forgot about those fumbles though! 4? that can’t happen. And that 4 th down play where he threw it away. I didn’t like that. But, I think he has the tools to be a GOOD, not GREAT QB. However, thats all we need. So he has my vote….for now.

by Luckydabney7 on Nov 16, 2009 5:19 AM EST up reply actions

Yea, him and Faine gotta work on that.

by NewLogic on Nov 16, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions

i think the team

is playing great….we just don’t have too much talent on that DLine. We need a stud on that line, and after this draft we will have one

by shadowchicken on Nov 15, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions

I knew I hated to see Sapp go.

I didn’t know it’d affect us this badly for so long. Ah, to be young and naive.

by NewLogic on Nov 15, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

I could not agree more. I think Suh is our guy

Viva la Bucco Bruce 1976-1996 (reincarnated 2009)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

(Phins Fan here)

Very good game. You guys played a lot better than even lat week against Green Bay. I almost stroked out during the fourth quarter. Freeman is definitely the answer at QB for you guys. Good game, and I think when we see you guys in 4 years, it’ll be that much tougher of a game. Good luck on the rest of the season.

Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.

Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.

Long you live and high you fly. But only if you ride the tide. And balanced on the biggest wave, you race towards an early grave.

by Farorefox on Nov 15, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions

That should be a great match in 4 years, with Freeman and Henne both being franchise QBs established in their careers probably.

Viva la Bucco Bruce 1976-1996 (reincarnated 2009)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

Our DL is just BAD.

Henne had so much time to throw on that final drive.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Nov 15, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions

i have to give it the bucs the last two weeks. freeman is stepping up big time for a young man.

i thought i would never say this but olson did a good job today too. i,m not sure if his future is with the bucs next year.lets face it with out the d stepping up(black) we had no shot to win this game.good job all the way around we stayed with the run today and it worked out for us(we had a shot at winning). we still have a lot of work to do tho.

by magicman775 on Nov 15, 2009 5:52 PM EST reply actions

The head coach continues to under perform

I’ve been disappointed in Morris all year. He has shown the ability to make various mistakes during the 3 hours per week he coaches the actual game. Based on that, I’m sure he makes many more mistakes in the 70 or so hours of preparation each week. This week I thought he let his emotions get the better of him at the end of the 1st half…and he drew a penalty. I also thought he overreacted after the go ahead score. The game was far from over at that point and he’s out there jumping around. I get it…he’s a young guy, he’s emotional. Give me a break. He’s the head coach. He needs to portray calm and confidence for his team. I hope the team continues to improve and that includes the head coach.

by kevinjc on Nov 15, 2009 5:59 PM EST reply actions

I will agree that he preaches to K2 no rollercoaster rides.

Unfortunately, you always see teams like the Bucs l ose their minds for first wins. If you remember, you never saw Brooks, Sapp, Lynch yelling over a win, but I do understand why they did.

Viva la Bucco Bruce 1976-1996 (reincarnated 2009)

by Niko Houllis on Nov 15, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions

That penalty on K2 may have been the difference in the game.

Its speculation, but I’d like to see what he did to warrant that

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Nov 15, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

That penalty on K2 may have been the difference in the game.

Its speculation, but I’d like to see what he did to warrant that

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Nov 15, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think it was.

They got the ball around their 30 and preceded to get big yard plays after plays after plays. K2 penalty or not, the defense couldn’t stop them whether they got the ball at the 1 or 50.

by NewLogic on Nov 15, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

TRUTH!

by RuudAwakening on Nov 15, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions

The are different coaching styles.

If I remember correctly, the media used to say that Dungy was way too calm during games and almost seemed like he didn’t care. Also there has been much bigger coaching explosions from lesser calls.

by NewLogic on Nov 15, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

I hear your point...

but getting overly excited after your first win is one thing. Getting overly excited during the next game is different.

by kevinjc on Nov 15, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions

reply fail.

by kevinjc on Nov 15, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions

Urrgh

I hate to say this, but bucs D – 1st and goal late second quarter drive that was ruled after that interception= 18 or possible 21 points- that’s a win- no matter how it works out. Again, with all the If’s though.

Why do you kill threads????

by 4QB on Nov 15, 2009 7:26 PM EST reply actions

2 Things lost this game...

1. First and foremost in my opinion was the rediculous call by the officials calling the int. toward the end of the 1st half. That call was absolutely rediculous, I read his explination on the pewter report and still thing he looked at the review either with his eyes shut or he was just straight up inebriated.

2. Defense FAIL… Granted the pick by Black was timely, however, keep in mind that was more than likely a punt anyway, even if that pass was complete. However, on that final drive the D basically handed Miami a field goal attempt.

by RuudAwakening on Nov 15, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions

Also...you beat me by .32 points in FFootball today.

.32. .32. Angry.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Nov 15, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions

LOL...

Sorry man…

by RuudAwakening on Nov 15, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions

Our defense has started to create turnovers which is great...

but we can’t give up the yardage and drives that we do and expect to win. Turnovers or not. It would be like trying to spray cologne on a wet dog.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Nov 15, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions

Nice...

I applaud them for the timely turnover, however, when the game is LITERALLY on the line, they need to step up for a stop of some sort on the final drive…

by RuudAwakening on Nov 15, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions

Any sort of pass rush would have won the game. I mean even giving him 4 seconds instead of 6 or 7.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by MNeilson on Nov 15, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions

Oh I agree... Whole heartedly..

Our Defense was an issue the entire game for the most part. However, the D was absolutely exploited on that final drive. Still though I can deal with our team sucking easier then I can the officiating handly Miami the ball in the redzone.

by RuudAwakening on Nov 15, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

Rule Clarification?

It is interesting. I saw that play (the interception at the end of the first half) and it brought to mind another play that happened this weekend. In Northwestern’s game against Illinois, an Illinois receiver caught the ball went to the ground, but as he was rolling over, Sherrick McManis (a cornerback for Northwestern) stripped the ball and was awarded an interception.

I was at the game and it looked like a catch and down for Illinois, which would have kept their chances of winning alive. But the referees ruled that it WAS an interception and the Wildcats won (hurray!). But it was the exact same play as what happened in the Dolphins-Bucs game today.

Here is the video (scroll to the end to find the play): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D16b0f7DfA

Apparently what the rule is (which is absurd in college when you are not down by contact) that the ground can force an interception if the ball pops back up and does not hit the ground but cannot force a fumble.

That still does not make any sense to me. I am sure this play is going to be reviewed and reviewed and reviewed. But anyone else got a ruling?

Philip,
The Curse of the Big Aristotle
http://bigaristotle.blogspot.com/

by philrsquared on Nov 16, 2009 1:21 AM EST reply actions