Facts and Fiction: Head Coaches
by Niko Houllis on Oct 25, 2009 6:24 PM EDT
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With an 0-7 start, I have heard the anti- Morris and anti- Dominik chatter. Rather than blame the previous regime for neglecting the right way to build a team, the draft, and instead applying bandaids all over the place, its easier to blame the head coach who covers no one, rushes not one passer, and drops 0 balls.
Lets look at Football Powers and Dynasties in the modern era.
Team of the 70s; Pittsburgh Steelers- Coached by Chuck Noll- Record first year 1-13
Team of the 80s; San Francisco 49ers- Coached by Bill Walsh- Record first year- 2-14
Team of the 90s (several have claim)--Dallas Cowboys- Coached by Jimmy Johnson- Record first year- 1-15
Team of 2000s- New England Patriots- Bill Belichik- 5-11 in 2000.
We are not talking about slouches here. Were talking about the greatest teams in NFL history, Three decades worth of teams that totaled 4 wins all together!
Does this mean Raheem Morris is going to be another Noll? Or Jimmy Johnson? or GULP Bill Walsh? No it doesn't mean that.
Some other notables.....
Mike Ditka's 85 Bears ---> 3-6 in 1982
Dick Vermeil's '80 Superbowl Eagles- 4-10 in 1976, Greatest Show on Turf 1999 Rams: 5-11 in 1997.
The List goes on.
Players play. Coaches Coach.
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I am patient
I think we will be a bad team again next year too. I am just looking for improvement. So far, none seen. We may lose all our games this year, and I will be happy if we make smart offseason moves and improve next year to be reasonably competitive. 2011 is where the rubber meets the road in my opinion for Raheem. They need to focus on building for the 2011 playoffs, and maybe 2012 Super Bowl. Rebuilding from basically scratch is going to take time.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
And its important
to lock up ruud, penn,and some other guys now. Otherwise, we’ll be in for a hell of a long rebuilding process.
T-Jack is back, J.J has went back to sucking, Bates won't blitz, Raheem's bored.
This month's Pewter Report has some interesting opinions about Mr Ruud, and why the Bucs wont lock him up...(ITO)
That he lacks vocal leadership, something the defense, and team, needs. They wanted to see him move into that role, but he doesnt seem to be that kind of guy. Plus, when you look at Jim Bates Middle Linebackers, he is small compared…
That he may be better suited for the Tampa 2 than Bates system.
I think we are seeing improvements from the defense.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I was looking on Wiki
about Jim Bates, and it says he likes smaller linebackers. Not that Wiki is never wrong. Did you know he coached the Gators with Steve Spurrier?
This is a good subject to look up, because Ive now heard both sides of the story...
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
There has been improvement, you just have to look.
Improvement I saw today was the DEs were putting in a lot of effort. There were several holding calls that prevented our DEs from getting to Brady and several of our DEs, such as Crowder, were one step away from a big play.
Also, we didn’t get shutout or blown out like the Titans which (besides the fact that there is evidence that we aren’t the worst team in the league) means our team still has moral and is still trying. That along with consistency on offense means we can steal some wins down the road.
Please don't ever mention
"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)
by chiefs_55 on Oct 26, 2009 12:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
...Raheem's name with those HOFers...
He couldn’t be an assistant tape room intern to one of them… He’s too quick to blame his players, nor is he accountable of his staff’s failures… These aren’t NFL coaching characteristics…
"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)
by chiefs_55 on Oct 26, 2009 12:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed:
Knoll was an assistant in SD, then went to Baltimore where he was the DC for Shula, he was an assistant/DC for 9/10 years before getting the HC job for the Steelers.
Walsh was an NFL/AFL asstant/OC from 1966 to 76 then was head coach of Sanford for one until he got the 49ers job, 11 years experience.
Johnson was an assistant/DC for a few college teams from 1965 to 1978, then HC of OSU from 79-83, then UM from 84-88 before getting becoming the Cowboys HC. 22 years of experience.
Belichick was an assistant/DC for many NFL teams starting in 1975 until 1991 when he was hired by Cleveland (for only 4 years). Then he went back to being an assistant coach until he was hired by the Patriots in 2000. 25 years of experience for Mr Bill.
Morris was a DB coach for Cornell and Hofstra from 01-02, then he was an assistant’s assistant and quality control coach for the Bucs from 03-06, then couldn’t hack it at KSU as DC for 1 year in 07. Came back to the Bucs as a secondary assistant coach before being named HC of the Bucs. 8 years in the biz, but no real experience.
There’s no comparison between him and the greats. I am not saying he can’t be a good HC in the future, but he was pushed into the drivers seat way too soon. He looks so lost on the side-line and he knows he’s in trouble. He’s lost the team, they’re quitting on him, and even Phil Simms noticed that today. I don’t think he makes it to the draft, probably lucky to make it to the next game.
I didn't see the whole game
But I didn’t see a team that was quitting. If the team quits, the Patriots have back to back 59 point games. And yea, Raheem doesn’t seem like the type to fully overhaul a team by himself. If we had a more fitting defensive scheme, then he’d have a much easier time.
I did not see a team quit on Morris, any more than I saw a team quit on Gruden last year.
Its easy to say that, its easy to say (hes this or that), but you have to back it up.
For Example, Chiefs_55 says hes too quick to blame his players….
But if you listen to every press conference, you hear him say " we have to get better as a team, we have to get better as a coaching staff". If your talking about blaming K2 for running out of bounds, or Clayton for dropping balls, the whole Tampa Bay area beat Morris to the punch in laying blame there, and other players.
As for accountability for his staffs failures…
name them?
1) OC Jags could not do the job. He was fired, in preseason mind you.
2)There are no others.
If assistants are not doing their jobs properly, that gets taken care of in the offseason, not after game 7.
Because those HOF coaches were assistants first, means nothing. Morris was an assistant too, with as much pedigree as these HOFers. He worked as an assistant on a SuperBowl winning team, and he worked under Monte Kiffin, the greatest defense coordinator of our time. How much more experience as an assistant do you want?
It has never been written you have to be a Off/Def coordinator before you can become a head coach.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The bottom line, and the comparisons to all of these coaches and their teams is being missed by some...
The comparison is…all of these teams, at the time their coaches took over, DID NOT HAVE the stars they would end up with. There was no Terry Bradshaw, Lynn Swann, LC Greenwood, etc on that 69 team. Some of the stars appeared in year one…Like Joe Montana, Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark in 79, (didnt start) , Troy Aikman (was horrible, fans were crying for Steve Walsh, at least he came from a national championship team. could you imagine if he had done that???), Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith…etc. The 2009 Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been stripped of good talent by years of poor drafting and years of fixing holes with bandaid/aging veterans. It has only a handful of good talent, and most of that is young. There are probably 5 players on this team that will grow into stars….the rest, like those 70s Steeler icons, just arnt here yet.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Teams
How about the saints they was junk untill they pick up a coach and a dam good QB along with the draft picks they picked up… And look at Houston they was shitty last year and now look at them there QB came back and killed….
IF U AIN'T A BUC GET THE BUC OUT OF HERE
by WE GOING TO THE SHIP on Oct 26, 2009 7:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well you can find hundreds of these little ones...
and your right. EVERY team goes through the up and down cycle of a franchise. Its only when a team stays down too long, such as the Bengals of the 90s, Rams of the 90s, Bucs of the 80s/90s, etc, that you have some concern.
I wanted to point out the 3 best teams in Pro Footballs modern history had coaches who had no talent on their teams.
Once they got the talent, via the draft, they went on their way!!
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
The problem is the talent level. We haven’t seen talent this low since the late 80s. Raheem Morris can’t win very many games if he doesn’t have the players to do it with.
"Is that right?" Joe answered. "That’s not a problem. But you’ve got a problem. You don’t relate to me. And that’s a big problem."
Player combos always win championships
The right player combinations in key positions…….Dominate Defenses (Steel Curtain of the 70’s…..Ravens……Giants….Tampa 2……Steelers 2000……) Offensive Combos(West Coast…Montana,Craig,Rice…Aikman,Smith,Irvin…..The Greatest Show on Earth..Warner,Faulk,50 receivers……Manning,Wayne,Clark,Harrison)
Morris has the players to build on for the future. TJack, Talib, Ward, Williams, Miller, Wilkerson, Winslow, Joseph, Faine, Stroughter.
We need a Dominate LT and RE. Solid QB play. #1 Receiver to step-up. Defensive Depth.We will be back in no time.
You're on the right track...
But we need more players than that.
There is no QB. There are no WRs (that includes Bryant). The defensive line is terrible.
There were plenty of chances during this offseason to address those issues, and they weren’t addressed by the front office. Next year’s draft will be loaded, and hopefully the Bucs front office will take advantage of it.
"Is that right?" Joe answered. "That’s not a problem. But you’ve got a problem. You don’t relate to me. And that’s a big problem."
I agree with Chiefs 55
Comparing him to those HOF coaches 1st year is like comparing a Creed album to the Beatles, if they sold the same amount their debut week. I bet Leeman Bennett, Rich Kotite, and Cam Cameron had similar starts also, maybe they need to be up there too.
There are building blocks, but they were all drafted by the previous regime. So far from these clowns we have Sammie Strougher and……
You forgot about Miller
Who has shown a lot of drive and hustle and has gotten a sack. You’ll soon get your look at Freeman as well as Kyle Moore. Biggers and Fulton will have to wait until next year.
There were no building blocks for those HOF coaches, or for Raheem.
IF he is still coach here by 2011, you wont recognize that team today.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 26, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This is interesting
It makes me have a little bit of hope. I also wonder what some of the worst teams of the decades coaches looked like? Probly a team with 3-4 coaches ever cpl years because they get fired.
If you mean the Raiders
Then yes. Having to change philosphy so often, I’d imagine could mess with a team.
"We have to get better as players and a coaching staff..."
Does not make up for dealing with internal issues behind the podium, such as declaring starting QB’s and then changing your mind Monday…
All of that aside: the play calling sucks, we have no commitment to the run, defense with high caliber secondary players that can’t defend deep balls, penalties, penalties and bad decisions, missed tackles…
These all point to execution, which means at practice there isn’t a dedication to fundementals, there isn’t an attention to detail…
That my friend falls on the coaching staff, not the talent.
I agree with you in many areas, and I’m a baptized in creamsickle fan, but I do not agree with you here.
"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)
by chiefs_55 on Oct 26, 2009 9:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The long term plan
Includes a coaching staff with absolute jokes for coaching resumes. Please go look at Jim Bates, Greg Olson, Todd Wash, and Robert Nunn. These guys are almost qualified to call plays on Madden 10 on the easy level. And of course that starts at the top, with a head coach who should be yelling at players to get back from the field, not running a team
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